How much trading profit is enough to live on?
- Thread starter jinxu
- Start date
That may seem far-fetched, and extreme...but it's true and possible.
Trading, initially, is not about account size -- it's about skill and your formula and execution abilities.
Assuming... you have those, you only need a small snowball, or starting account, to grow into an avalanche
Of course it's not easy, and that level of success is relatively rare -- but that's a different story or point.
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Lawrence made sense to me. Most self made traders likely started out small and grew their small accounts into significant accounts later on. I read about legendary traders that made it that way in books and the internet.
But they are black swans and it is unlikely that I will ever meet one of them. The fact that I only see white swans does not mean black swans do not exist.
But they are black swans and it is unlikely that I will ever meet one of them. The fact that I only see white swans does not mean black swans do not exist.
I think we are all missing the point here, the OP imho has no business trading especially if he need the gains to live in his current state of mind. Trading is hard enough when you don't need the money and you are in good mental health, doing so being depressed, undercapitalized, and needing the gains to support himself is a receipt for disaster. Imho
Best advice for new traders is not to come to "any " conclusion about trading or their trading skills before one year of trading consistently with a sample sized investment. 
First 6 months : Market is the same, it has got the same variations repeating itself, from bullish to flat to bearish to volatile. To see the "full face" of the market with most of the variations it would need at least 6 months. Only a sample sized investment for trading is suggested for beginners.
Investigating the historical charts of past months will be pretty useful to develop more ideas quickly.
Second 6 months : Observing all the variations does not mean that we know how to make money out of them. "Insight " about the behavior of market is what is needed as a trader. Once again that insight need to tested for 6 months with a sample sized investment.
Repeat : If the insight is proven for six months then go for it. On the other hand if it didn't worked, look for yet another insight, which needs another 6 months to test. Repeat until a valid insight is found.
Reconsider : If nothing worked even after 5 or 6 insights then most probably its time to reconsider the decision of trading as a career.
Live is alive : Trading live is a bit different from investigating historical charts, in terms of our predicting ability. Live trading alone can give real experience to develop the predicting and trading skill.
Important : Internet can teach risk management. What internet won't give is an "insight " about the market. People who lack insight confuse risk management with strategy.
Thumb rule : Only "insight " is the genuine strategy. Risk management is just a top up of strategy.
Last words : Trading is an "art ". Here insight, intuition and creativity are the primary stuff. Analytical thinking is a supporting thing.
First 6 months : Market is the same, it has got the same variations repeating itself, from bullish to flat to bearish to volatile. To see the "full face" of the market with most of the variations it would need at least 6 months. Only a sample sized investment for trading is suggested for beginners.
Investigating the historical charts of past months will be pretty useful to develop more ideas quickly.
Second 6 months : Observing all the variations does not mean that we know how to make money out of them. "Insight " about the behavior of market is what is needed as a trader. Once again that insight need to tested for 6 months with a sample sized investment.
Repeat : If the insight is proven for six months then go for it. On the other hand if it didn't worked, look for yet another insight, which needs another 6 months to test. Repeat until a valid insight is found.
Reconsider : If nothing worked even after 5 or 6 insights then most probably its time to reconsider the decision of trading as a career.
Live is alive : Trading live is a bit different from investigating historical charts, in terms of our predicting ability. Live trading alone can give real experience to develop the predicting and trading skill.
Important : Internet can teach risk management. What internet won't give is an "insight " about the market. People who lack insight confuse risk management with strategy.
Thumb rule : Only "insight " is the genuine strategy. Risk management is just a top up of strategy.
Last words : Trading is an "art ". Here insight, intuition and creativity are the primary stuff. Analytical thinking is a supporting thing.
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Correct, Risk Management just keeps you in the game, losing at a affordable rate for ever then trading like your always going to lose while profitable, slows you down and holds you back.
Get good, go high margin, get rich quick, get out before you go MAD!!
Never EVER talk down to anyone cause you 'claim' to have 100K+ and therefore poorer peoples opinions aren't worthy.
1st Year: Damn this is hard and yet it looks so easy after day is done.
2nd Year: I didn't understand much about price action, but feel am getting closer
3rd Year: I am so close, just a little more paper back testing, I be there.
4th Year: Am I ever going to stop doing dumb things? So obvious after day is done. But I am so close.
5th Year: I broke down and started learning programming, man this is hard, losing less though since I am trading less. I am so far away, what was I thinking I could do this, nothing tests out well.
6th Year: Taking this year to back test, getting pretty good at it. Getting hypnosis. Hmmmm, this system back tests well enough.
7th Year: How about that, my first winning month and year. Could have gotten Masters in Financial at Harvard by now. What a schuck I did for trying this.
8th Year: Made up all that I have lost day trading. Should have never done this, was making good money in long term stocks.
10th Year: Damn this is hard, still lack self control of doing non system trades, take me 2-3 months to recover from being an idiot for a day.
11th Year: Got my idiot journal going, all dumb trades go in there instead of real time. This trading can be profitable, 4th year of being.
14th Year: What was I thinking I shouldn't quit work, fricking dumb move, fricking losing month. Well, stay focused. Good year, but much fear and have to pay health insurance and no vacations, not that I have taken any.
15th Year: Just when I think it getting easier.... At least no losing months
25th Year: Roll out of bed, flip on computer, make coffee, sit down... GAME TIME---feel like Groundhog Day movie.
32th Year: Just when I think I know most everything, I learn something new. Well, least I have most everything automated. And I still consider it my hobby.
2nd Year: I didn't understand much about price action, but feel am getting closer
3rd Year: I am so close, just a little more paper back testing, I be there.
4th Year: Am I ever going to stop doing dumb things? So obvious after day is done. But I am so close.
5th Year: I broke down and started learning programming, man this is hard, losing less though since I am trading less. I am so far away, what was I thinking I could do this, nothing tests out well.
6th Year: Taking this year to back test, getting pretty good at it. Getting hypnosis. Hmmmm, this system back tests well enough.
7th Year: How about that, my first winning month and year. Could have gotten Masters in Financial at Harvard by now. What a schuck I did for trying this.
8th Year: Made up all that I have lost day trading. Should have never done this, was making good money in long term stocks.
10th Year: Damn this is hard, still lack self control of doing non system trades, take me 2-3 months to recover from being an idiot for a day.
11th Year: Got my idiot journal going, all dumb trades go in there instead of real time. This trading can be profitable, 4th year of being.
14th Year: What was I thinking I shouldn't quit work, fricking dumb move, fricking losing month. Well, stay focused. Good year, but much fear and have to pay health insurance and no vacations, not that I have taken any.
15th Year: Just when I think it getting easier.... At least no losing months
25th Year: Roll out of bed, flip on computer, make coffee, sit down... GAME TIME---feel like Groundhog Day movie.
32th Year: Just when I think I know most everything, I learn something new. Well, least I have most everything automated. And I still consider it my hobby.
Probably if you had traded full time then it would have taken just three straight years instead of thirty years.
From psychological perspective there is significant difference between trading part time and full time.
Probably if you had traded full time then it would have taken just three straight years instead of thirty years.
From psychological perspective there is significant difference between trading part time and full time.
"Probably" You just trying to be a dic-aroma, aren't you.
Part time for me has always been 60 hours plus a week in trading, my hobby, with an in city job of 40 hours, seldom in my life have I slept more than 4-5 hours in a day, weekends were maybe 4 hours over three days, have an hyper active life. When I started thinking about day trading, it is so not like today, then calling in orders to phone clerk then he calls the floor on BIG S&P500 which was nickel a tick and $25 a tick, you needed $30,000 to trade one S&P contract as margin was $25,000. Instead of watered down ES.
I use to work nights, get home at 3am, get a nap and up at 6am to start with currencies/S&P at 7:30 and trade till closing at 2pm, then nap till 5, and start all over again. You must be different, as from a "psychological perspective", I detest losing money no matter how much time I put into trading. I did manage to make 3 million by time I quit my job, had only another 13 years to go for retirement, LOL Only good part was I got to travel out of the country handful times a year.
I have always considered trading to be a hobby and only couple years had to rely on profits for a living, I rather do other things with my life than watching sticks. Automation way to go.
Do you consider what Buffet does to be part time? I doubt he goes through 1000's of charts and financials 8 hours a day.
Traveling is a good time out of trading i guess
60 hours per week of trading is full time only right?
Generally part time means 30 or less per week.
Buffett's after work hours : https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/273342
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