How do u know u have made it in daytrading?

If you draw out 50% of your profits each month and be able to pay all you bills times five, and be able to do that for two years, very possible you have made it in day trading. What many traders do each month is try to build up there accounts without taking money out and then they get sloppy. Another topic not covered is making very good profits ending in December, then losing in next three months of the next year, and if you have not taken money out to cover the taxes for preceding year, your account might have to be closed out to pay the taxes. Don't need any surprises at the end of the year.

It is much easier to make money when markets are trending nicely without huge volatility, but you can't survive on this to happen each month, week, day. You can't rely having one method to play the game. You need rules to tell you when not to play the game at all and other methods when there are many 2-3 tic bars. I recall all the trend traders cried when markets got tight cause they need bigger swings to get there profits, but to become an all around day trader, you have to be able to adapt to average range days and very tight range days, and staying away from hugely range bar days, then it is just guessing where the market is going.

I agree with "the1" of the two books he recommends.
Also one must do exercise each day as well. Day trading puts huge stress on the mind and especially the body.

Day trading is about many aspects because of the speed. One has to learn to ACCEPT, accept your rules which have been backtested well, and then have the nerves of steel to follow your rules no matter what. Some days I have taken 30 trades and all I can get is 1 tic per trade, to some it was a bad day, but to me it was an outstanding day, I have learned to accept what the market is willing to give me. You gain much confidence thru the years in learning your craft well, where upon you just wake up knowing you will be profitable each day.

Long term trading is like landing a Piper 4 seater with a 3 mile landing strip, day trading is landing in the middle of a moonless night on a aircraft carrier. You have to trade like the Pros or you will crash and burn.
 
Anyone remember Y2K? Wasn't that long ago. I lost my account in the tech bubble when the newbies like myself thought the market was a way to print money!
I went back to working and saving and started investing, then swing trading and got back into day trading. I've finally got to where I'm comfortable. For me the big difference was when I quit trying to make money... I just tried to trade my best and the money followed.
Now money management is a huge factor. Part of my profits stay in the account so that I increase my income (money makes money), part of it goes to my investment account. There I keep lower risk and longer term trades such as div paying stocks and writing covered calls on them. I also always have 6 months income set aside just in case it takes a while to figure out the next big change in the market.
I'm convinced that is it the ability to understand that the market is always right no matter what and to never argue with it. It is also to realize that I will be a student or rookie or whatever you want to call it as long as I'm trading in the market...

The market in my mind is very much like a woman... wonderful and mystical and the second you figure them out... THEY CHANGE!

Cheers, Mel
 
This is excellent, especially the part about women :D

Quote from ClimbingMel:

Anyone remember Y2K? Wasn't that long ago. I lost my account in the tech bubble when the newbies like myself thought the market was a way to print money!
I went back to working and saving and started investing, then swing trading and got back into day trading. I've finally got to where I'm comfortable. For me the big difference was when I quit trying to make money... I just tried to trade my best and the money followed.
Now money management is a huge factor. Part of my profits stay in the account so that I increase my income (money makes money), part of it goes to my investment account. There I keep lower risk and longer term trades such as div paying stocks and writing covered calls on them. I also always have 6 months income set aside just in case it takes a while to figure out the next big change in the market.
I'm convinced that is it the ability to understand that the market is always right no matter what and to never argue with it. It is also to realize that I will be a student or rookie or whatever you want to call it as long as I'm trading in the market...

The market in my mind is very much like a woman... wonderful and mystical and the second you figure them out... THEY CHANGE!

Cheers, Mel
 
Quote from innovest_11:

Thanks for all the great stuff, i will read this thread over and over again

You misjudged.

Don't reread.

There are stages that lead to success. I had to think a moment to put them in an order. Each of these, you experience regardless of your personality or sucessful style of trading.

There is no "If".

1. The standard of performance is paralleling the market's offer.

2. Money is not involved when measuring success.

3. The standard emotions are: support, comfort and confidence.

4. It is understood that traders do not make decisions, the market provides the decision. The trader obeys.


Success is a growing tree that stems from two ingredients:

Always being on the correct side of the market, and

compounding profits after the original capital is removed.

Success turns out to be a continuous extraction process.

Some notable milestones are:

Original capital is removed; only profits are traded.

Trading is a hold/reversal process. Enter/exit is only used when capital is rotated from one instrument to another.

Recognition of the fact that markets follow an order of events related to dominance/nondominace instead of up and down anything. (Movement is measured right to left and vice versa)

The most important aspect of the treader/market partnership is the division of responsibility. The market decides and the trader obeys.

Finally, in terms of success, the emotional setting is comfort, support and confidence. Feelings of anxiety, fear and anger are tells that the trader is in an unsuccessful condition that precedes and prevents partnering with the market.

Succeessful traders do not place and protect bets.

Trading with certainty all the time is the status of a successful trader.

You know if you are a successful trader as soon as you recognize that you have immunity to the econometrics of your given culture.

As a wrap on my commentary, think about the definition of a full time trader. This is a definition that includes being in an unsuccessful status.

Success comes AFTER being a full time trader for a while.

Commissions are a trivial cost of trading. Any trader on the way to success notices that his commissions are larger than his possible professional salary at some point.
 
Quote from the1:

No, this isn't true. People who make it initially are indeed lucky but if you're able to make it long term then you have developed the ability to adapt, which is the key. As an example, prior to 2007 the market was non-volatile and very trendy intra-day, which is where I spend most of my time. In this type of market I follow the move and use close stops.

Fast forward a few months and the market went bipolar. Up, down, up down....in this type of market I trade counter to the move and scale in and out of positions with virtually no stop. I do place a stop but it is far away from the market and it's sole purpose is to prevent a disaster. 99.99% of my losses in this type of market are manual when I hit the trade out button. One of my primary strategies in this type of market is to enter counter positions where I know stops are placed. If the market puts in a hard low I would buy and when it goes below that low, where the stops are placed. Watch the spiders for blocks on an uptick and I'm long.

Now I'm back to following the market with stops most of the time.

Now here's the rub....even though we are in a non-volatile trending type market you will still find days where there is chop, which triggers my counter move strategy. The movement as the Dow has been challenging the April highs has been similar to what it was like in 2008 and 2009 but with much less intra-day volatility.

In 2008 and 2009 I made 90% of my money in the first hour fading reactions to news. I just loved that 10am econ number. Nowadays, I make 90% of my money after the first hour. Currently, I have a number of algo's running that crunch data and tell me what kind of day to expect -- trend or chop? One thing I was track closely is T&S that execute on an uptick vs. a downtick. Another thing I watch is where price spends most of it's time - i.e. f-distributions and t-distributions.

To wrap things up, you have to develop a strategy that virtually no one else is using and you have to develop a level of sophistication that is superior to the competition. The biggest assets I have are my ability to program and my knowledge about statistics. After that it's just a matter of analyzing data and having the ability to adapt, adapt, adapt.

Such a clever wee lad.
 
Quote from the1:

To wrap things up, you have to develop a strategy that virtually no one else is using and you have to develop a level of sophistication that is superior to the competition. The biggest assets I have are my ability to program and my knowledge about statistics. After that it's just a matter of analyzing data and having the ability to adapt, adapt, adapt.

You seem to feel you are competing with others in the market. Unless you are a really big player, your trades go unnoticed. If you are not a significant player, you are competing against only yourself.

I don't see any advantage or necessity of having a unique strategy.

Your ability to program (as is mine) is a rapidly depreciating asset when it comes to testing strategies. New tools coming online using a GUI permit quite rapid development by the non-programmer.

Your knowledge of statistics is a great asset. You are less likely to fool yourself into thinking you have something better than it is than someone without this advantage.

Your ability to program and your knowledge of statistics in combination may give you an advantage in coming up with ideas worthy of testing. It would seem that this advantage is primarily of benefit when trying to discover a unique strategy. It is my opinion that you don't need to develop a unique strategy, but you may want to for personal reasons.

I wish you continued success.

__________________
Author - "These Seven Trading (Investing) Secrets Will Explode Your Account: All I Know About Trading (Investing) I Learned in Flight School"
 
Quote from HowardCohodas:

You seem to feel you are competing with others in the market. Unless you are a really big player, your trades go unnoticed. If you are not a significant player, you are competing against only yourself.

Competition only occurs when a player is dealing with what he feels, mistakenly, is an edge of anomally. Neither exist when precision is attained.

Extracting the offer is simply done because it is there as an opportunity for "taking".


I don't see any advantage or necessity of having a unique strategy.

Striving for uniqueness is a myth. At all times the market is one or the other of two things (by each measure that is a possible legitiment measure).

The best and most important examples of this are market sentiment, market dominance, market direction, market momentum, the rate of change of momentum, etc...


Your ability to program (as is mine) is a rapidly depreciating asset when it comes to testing strategies. New tools coming online using a GUI permit quite rapid development by the non-programmer.

Programming and GUI were interim relics of the financial industry. The examples on the list above are simply "checkoffs" on a multicolumn log.

The trader has to meet only two requirements:

1. Be on the right side of the market.

2. Compound profits.


Your knowledge of statistics is a great asset. You are less likely to fool yourself into thinking you have something better than it is than someone without this advantage.

There are no requirements at all for doing statistics. It is very possible for any trader to reason that he, at any time, is correct or wrong. It is simply a column that is checked off one way or another. Fortunately, people who focus on probability and betting are liquidity providers. This has been well known for centuries.

Your ability to program and your knowledge of statistics in combination may give you an advantage in coming up with ideas worthy of testing. It would seem that this advantage is primarily of benefit when trying to discover a unique strategy. It is my opinion that you don't need to develop a unique strategy, but you may want to for personal reasons.

This is an answer to the question: "What does a trader do to become an expert in a very short time?" This answer also happens to be the wrong answer. It is a very traditional and well accepted answer in the financial industry. Most people with answers other than this answer find it difficult to be part of the financial industry.

Harris points out the heirachy in his book on page 199. To escape from this answer is difficult, apparently. read the responses in this thread of those who did not escape.

How can a person escape? The answer lies with learning and how the mind works.

Success in trading is having a fully differentiated mind. this resourse is easily turned into an ATS which profiles as an ATM.


Is there much of any chance that any person can differentiate their minds with respect to trading?

No, there is not.

It is not posible for anyone to carry out a plan to become fully differentiated. No one, as a rule, has the ability to formulate a plan even if given a multitude of examples of the "checkoff" nature of the markets.

Here is a blatant example of an individual who went through this differentiation process in 26 months. Six months in this day an age is the equivalent.

By starting with 500 dollars and working to grow his mind, he took the profits and bought a seat on the NYSE within 26 months of beginning.

Trading stocks using position trading is what he did. Today, that approach can be compressed and used for intraday trading of indexes.

The least anyone can do is read a one page bio of this person. then you can read a couple of his books to reorient to the checkoff world.

Google William J O'Neil or read page 173 of "24 Essential Lessons for Investment Success". SUCCESS is the topic.

Apparently people spend years and years spending time on the wrong things and get nowhere.

Why not become a millionaire in a very short time like 6 months?

A differentiated mind defines success. Can a person learn to check off the correct columns and see their order of events???

No, No a thousand times NO!!!!
 
jack hershey,

You seemed to have hijacked my response to a paragraph from an earlier post to an end that I cannot fathom. I can't figure out what point you are trying to make or how it relates to the original paragraph.

__________________
Author - "These Seven Trading (Investing) Secrets Will Explode Your Account: All I Know About Trading (Investing) I Learned in Flight School"
 
Oh my...All the superfluous writing one can be entertained with here on ET.

Just watch your account balance. It will tell you everything you need to know/do.
 
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