Honest question...

[Rearden Metal]

Quote from ARogueTrader:

Is there good and bad? Of course.

Does a thief like it when he is robbed?

Does a man who cheats on his wife like it if he finds out his wife is cheating on him?

Does a bully like it when he is bullied?

Do murderers like to be put to death?

Does a liar like being lied to?

Careful...the far left does not approve of this sort of thinking.
Remember what your wise ultra-liberal leaders tell you- all cultures are relative. Islam is a religion of peace. The American way of doing things is no better than the Sierra Leonean way of doing things... The only real evil in the world is the male white capitalist who exploits all other people...

 

[ARogueTrader]

The term "evil" as used by the right wing has a Biblical meaning, not a secular meaning. My comments were secular in nature.

The American way is capitalism, excess, etc. Many liberals prefer a "Christian" way, you know, like gaining spiritual riches over material wealth, feeding the poor, moderation, sharing wealth, respecting mother nature, etc.

No religion is a religion of either peace or war. Wars are waged by men not religions. Christians, Jews, Muslims etc. wage war out of fanatical thinking, not love of God.

Quote from Rearden Metal:

Careful...the far left does not approve of this sort of thinking.
Remember what your wise ultra-liberal leaders tell you- all cultures are relative. Islam is a religion of peace. The American way of doing things is no better than the Sierra Leonean way of doing things... The only real evil in the world is the male white capitalist who exploits all other people...

 

[dbphoenix]

Quote from WDGann:

I understand that Satan used to be called Lucifer and he was banned from heaven and controls the underworld or something like that...

Why is it that God = Good and Satan = Bad...

Ethics wise, there is no good or bad, just moral biases which is just a mere reflection of yourself rather than reality...

Can anyone give me some insights of why Satan is bad...

If, as you say, there is no good or bad, then there is no God and no Satan if they exist only to embody "good" and "bad", the specifics of which depend entirely on the society in which one lives, i.e., there is no absolute "good" nor any absolute "bad".

 

[maxpi]

Satan hates God and he hates man who is made in God's image. You can't necessarily get a real feel for this situation through your intellect but if you get into healing ministries you might, though most are pretty ineffective. I have sat in a few meetings of one very effective one wherein we confronted satan in people and we actually got him to talk. The first time I experienced that I was sitting right next to this kid that was brought in because he was a bully and he was acting out and what not. His parents were drug addicts and satan worshippers and had sold all the future generations to satan, the kid included. The gifted leader and people with lots of experience could hear from the Holy Spirit and find out what is troubling people and we did that and we asked the name of the troubling spirit and we asked it to defend it's right to control the kid. It said it's name was satan. I was sitting right next to the kid and when I heard that I was actually looking for the exits. It was very startling. After awhile the leader took authority over satan in the name of Jesus and sent him away. The transformation in the kid was profound, he was crying and his appearance went from a very defiant, repulsive and messed up looking kid to a really nice looking one. He was hugging the pastor and everything, he really appreciated what was done for him.

We have these meetings once a month and near an ariport in Southern California so people can fly in and learn. The only money involved is for the rent on the church basement, grand total of $65 usually spread over about 30 people, the guy that leads the meetings is a succesful businessman and never has needed to ask for money in all the decades he has been doing this work. PM me if you want more info.

 

[jem]

never mind. I am just blown away by people not believing there is good and evil. But it does explain things. To answer the question. To me it is not a matter of ethics. There is good and evil. There are universal truths. Helping a blind lady across a street during rush hour in NYC is good, even if you have to look at it on a pabablistic basis.

Now if you really debate the issue to the end, I believe you get to the piont where you are just arguing about the existence of God or anything absolute. The person denying God will admit that there is good and bad but it can not be absolute because they do not admit to God. For a non god believer it all comes back to Plato and what is Just.

So in the end I think you have to Go with Plato type thinking or a belief in Natural Law.

 

[dbphoenix]

Quote from jem:

never mind. I am just blown away by people not believing there is good and evil. But it does explain things

There is good and evil, but how one defines it depends on his culture. Christians believe they have a lock on that franchise, but that doesn't make it true.

 

[dbphoenix]

Quote from maxpi:

Satan hates God and he hates man who is made in God's image. You can't necessarily get a real feel for this situation through your intellect but if you get into healing ministries you might, though most are pretty ineffective. I have sat in a few meetings of one very effective one wherein we confronted satan in people and we actually got him to talk.

You're kidding, right?

 

[oddiduro]

Quote from WDGann:

I understand that Satan used to be called Lucifer and he was banned from heaven and controls the underworld or something like that...

Why is it that God = Good and Satan = Bad...

Ethics wise, there is no good or bad, just moral biases which is just a mere reflection of yourself rather than reality...

Can anyone give me some insights of why Satan is bad...

Religion is the thread in the fabric of culture. Therefore, satan is any principle or deed that threatens to unravel the fabric of a particular culture.

It is easy to say that rape, murder, or theft are universally evil, except that rape, murder, and theft is defined different from culture to culture.

In some cultures, girls of age( after first period) are set loose in a field and single men of age run out and catch them. This practice was also documented biblically.

Murder is not considered evil in war, capital punishment, or justified revenge( which also varies from culture to culture)

Some cultures actually raid the home of someone they feel has accumulated too much over the rest of the village. It is a primitive redistribution of wealth.

Regards
Oddi

 

[jem]

DB many christians recognize they must live in a society not governed by a universal belief in God. You realize that Barry Lynn is a preacher. The guy who heads the organization that always argues for the seperation of church and state. He wrote the ACLU guide to Religious Rights.

My points above which were edited while you were writing are not hinged on God. They are hinged on what is right.

In addition to my belief that there are absolutes and perfection, it seems to me that 1 plus 1 equals two regardless of langauge cultural backgroud or bias or any other tools. Relativistic tools and arguements were used by socialist and communist leaders to reconstruct their society. I


If no one can determine what is right because there is no right no one can say Hitler or Stalin or even George W. Bush is wrong.

In response to the Oddiduro comment, if it is O.K. to commit genocide just because some cultures have done it... then I guess there really is no right from wrong and Satan (or evil or the darkside) really has won.

P.S. I think of slavery, I think of a problem in some of the communities in San Diego where young girls were having their clits removed and their vagina's sewn almost closed because their parents did it that way in the old country. Now this is not necesarily my stongest argument for natural law, but it should sure swing a few liberal votes to my side of the fence.

 

[ShoeshineBoy]

Quote from WDGann:

I understand that Satan used to be called Lucifer and he was banned from heaven and controls the underworld or something like that...

Why is it that God = Good and Satan = Bad...

Ethics wise, there is no good or bad, just moral biases which is just a mere reflection of yourself rather than reality...

Can anyone give me some insights of why Satan is bad...

Satan is viewed as evil not so much because of legalistic and ethical differences, but because of his desire to usurp God's authority. He is considered a "theif and robber" because the earth was intended for man under God. To get a feel for this, you can listen to Sympathy for the Devil by the Stones or the remix by Jane's Addiction. It does a great job of portraying the underlying spiritual angle of this but is palatable for non-Christians because it was written by a Satanist.

Again, most orthodox Christians (and apparently Mick Jaggar) see Satan as establishing a "spiritual kingdom" behind the various power/spiritual centers of the globe. (And this is why Christians are so mistrustful of a "World Republic". )

You may be aware but there are biblical passages about Satan in Isa 14 and Ezek 28 (or maybe it's Isa 28 and Ezek 14). The "evil" in these passages is not so much described as legal violations of some biblical code, but as an "invading monarch".

Your question is concentrating, I think, on the legal differences between God and Satan. But Christians do not even see Satan as having a set of defined values. They see him as working within all cultures to establish himself as the "spiritual power center" of that country a la Sympathy for the Devil. There's an old saying that "the devil will tell you 90% truth to get you to believe 10% lies."