hmm.no edges in the markets

[dbphoenix]

Quote from NoDoji:

I don't use volume either, mainly because I have no idea what to use it for or how to use it.

Price and volume tell two different stories. That they have been joined at the hip by vendors is unfortunate, but to separate them, surgically or otherwise, is not an insurmountable obstacle.

Price tells you what the balance is between buying pressure and selling pressure. If buying pressure has the upper hand, price rises. If selling pressure has the upper hand, price falls.

Volume tells you how hard buyers and sellers are trying, but it doesn't tell you squat about who's in charge.

And that's it.

Rising volume on a move downward is not a negative. Rising volume on a move downward tells you that buyers are rushing in to retard, stop, or even reverse the move downward. Whether or not they manage to do so is beside the point. Without the buyers, there would be piddling volume. When price reaches THE bottom, volume may be high or low depending on how much more effort is required, but the volume itself does not signal the bottom. The bottom is signaled by the fact that price is no longer falling.

As for high volume to the upside, this is not necessarily a positive, either. The positive is that price is rising. The volume simply tells you how much effort buyers are putting in to move it. If volume is high, they're facing a lot of resistance. If it isn't, they aren't, i.e., sellers are not fighting the rise, for whatever reason. What matters most to the trader, however, is that price is rising. Who cares why?

Volume, therefore, can provide useful or important or even necessary details, but it's the harmony, not the melody.

 

[trilogic]

Quote from dbphoenix:

Price and volume tell two different stories. That they have been joined at the hip by vendors is unfortunate, but to separate them, surgically or otherwise, is not an insurmountable obstacle.

Price tells you what the balance is between buying pressure and selling pressure. If buying pressure has the upper hand, price rises. If selling pressure has the upper hand, price falls.

Volume tells you how hard buyers and sellers are trying, but it doesn't tell you squat about who's in charge.

And that's it.

Rising volume on a move downward is not a negative. Rising volume on a move downward tells you that buyers are rushing in to retard, stop, or even reverse the move downward. Whether or not they manage to do so is beside the point. Without the buyers, there would be piddling volume. When price reaches THE bottom, volume may be high or low depending on how much more effort is required, but the volume itself does not signal the bottom. The bottom is signaled by the fact that price is no longer falling.

As for high volume to the upside, this is not necessarily a positive, either. The positive is that price is rising. The volume simply tells you how much effort buyers are putting in to move it. If volume is high, they're facing a lot of resistance. If it isn't, they aren't, i.e., sellers are not fighting the rise, for whatever reason. What matters most to the trader, however, is that price is rising. Who cares why?

Volume, therefore, can provide useful or important or even necessary details, but it's the harmony, not the melody.

DB how did you find yourself concerned with such short term trading?

do you do well live trading? do you trade live other peoples money?

thank you

 

[dbphoenix]

Quote from trilogic:

DB how did you find yourself concerned with such short term trading?

The principles apply to all bar intervals, from 1m (or less) to daily, weekly, monthly and so on.

 

[trilogic]

Quote from dbphoenix:

The principles apply to all bar intervals, from 1m (or less) to daily, weekly, monthly and so on.

you actually trade- put money to work ?

 

[Redneck]

Quote from dbphoenix:

Price and volume tell two different stories. That they have been joined at the hip by vendors is unfortunate, but to separate them, surgically or otherwise, is not an insurmountable obstacle.

Price tells you what the balance is between buying pressure and selling pressure. If buying pressure has the upper hand, price rises. If selling pressure has the upper hand, price falls.

Volume tells you how hard buyers and sellers are trying, but it doesn't tell you squat about who's in charge.

And that's it.

Rising volume on a move downward is not a negative. Rising volume on a move downward tells you that buyers are rushing in to retard, stop, or even reverse the move downward. Whether or not they manage to do so is beside the point. Without the buyers, there would be piddling volume. When price reaches THE bottom, volume may be high or low depending on how much more effort is required, but the volume itself does not signal the bottom. The bottom is signaled by the fact that price is no longer falling.

As for high volume to the upside, this is not necessarily a positive, either. The positive is that price is rising. The volume simply tells you how much effort buyers are putting in to move it. If volume is high, they're facing a lot of resistance. If it isn't, they aren't, i.e., sellers are not fighting the rise, for whatever reason. What matters most to the trader, however, is that price is rising. Who cares why?

Volume, therefore, can provide useful or important or even necessary details, but it's the harmony, not the melody.

Few things to add

I view volume – as the move “T-ing up – behind the current move of price – usually ***

*** usually - because sometimes shtf - and everyone wants in... or out

===================================
iow;

If (an granted a big if) but if I had many shares at play – I would insert or extract them when the majority would willing suck them up.
I may even let price go against me for a bit to get a better entry on my over all position

However once the door slammed shut – those eager to suck up my inventory would be scrambling to get out, pushing price in my favor

And I couldn't hide my activity, as it would stick out like a sore thumb amongst all the other activity

===================================

See a spike in vol – then simply watch what price does after that – and even though the ultimate move may take a few bars – you’ll know what the majority of that spike was – buying or selling

====================================

Color your volume bars the same – it helps

====================================
There’s more, but it gets into referencing where price is in its current move/ channel - meaning context plays one major role in deciphering volume

and it would take lot o splanin


RN

 

[dbphoenix]

Quote from trilogic:

you actually trade- put money to work ?

Wrong question. A better question is whether or not the person you're reading or listening to makes sense. Unless you're planning on copying him/her, in which case you'll fail.

If you want to succeed as a trader, you must be willing to develop a trading system of your own that is unique to you and your wants and your needs and your interests. If you don't, you may as well set your money on fire.

If you're just starting, you have the opportunity to avoid picking up the kinds of bad habits that doom most traders to fail year after year after year (it's not unusual to find traders who've been at this for 15 years and barely make expenses).

Take charge of your education. Everything you need to know to be successful is in the charts (or the T&S display). You don't need rooms or forums or software or courses or books or subscriptions of one sort or another or "mentors". You only need to be able to see.

 

[dbphoenix]

Quote from Redneck:

See a spike in vol – then simply watch what price does after that – and even though the ultimate move may take a few bars – you’ll know what the majority of that spike was – buying or selling

Not exactly. Every transaction involves both buying and selling. It's the movement of price, not the number of transactions (the level of volume), that tells you whether buyers or sellers played the better hand.

 

[Redneck]

Quote from dbphoenix:

Not exactly. Every transaction involves both buying and selling. It's the movement of price, not the number of transactions (the level of volume), that tells you whether buyers or sellers played the better hand.

Alrighty... let me ask this

price going down, spike in volume occurs, price starts moving up, and keeps moving up

What can be surmised from that spike in volume

RN

 

[dbphoenix]

Quote from Redneck:

Alrighty... let me ask this

price going down, spike in volume occurs, price starts moving up, and keeps moving up

What can be surmised from that spike in volume

RN

An increase in activity. Buyers enter the market either in greater numbers or with greater determination because they want to slow down, halt, and reverse the direction of price and sellers are trying to keep price in a downfall. This results in a lot of activity. If volume declines after buyers have accomplished what they set out to do, then sellers are letting them do it without much resistance (if sellers were to resist the upmove, volume would remain high).

By the same token, "breakouts" from bases often occur on light volume. Why not? Sellers after all want price to rise so that they can sell what they have to those who want to buy and are creating the breakout. If they flood the buyers with shares or whatever (high volume), they run the risk of choking off exactly what they want to encourage. Volume may increase fairly quickly, but it need not occur during the breakout itself. Once the volume attracts attention, buyers may rush in (particularly amateurs; the professionals bought before the breakout) and sellers can then increase the amount of whatever it is they're selling (shares, contracts, etc). That results in an increase in volume, i.e., transactions, i.e., activity.

 

[Redneck]

Quote from dbphoenix:

An increase in activity. Buyers enter the market either in greater numbers or with greater determination because they want to slow down, halt, and reverse the direction of price and sellers are trying to keep price in a downfall. This results in a lot of activity. If volume declines after buyers have accomplished what they set out to do, then sellers are letting them do it without much resistance (if sellers were to resist the upmove, volume would remain high).

Could also be on rising, or high(er) volume – where sellers are scrambling to get out / and eager buyers are entering

Quote from dbphoenix:

By the same token, "breakouts" from bases often occur on light volume. Why not? Sellers after all want price to rise so that they can sell what they have to those who want to buy and are creating the breakout. If they flood the buyers with shares or whatever (high volume), they run the risk of choking off exactly what they want to encourage. Volume may increase fairly quickly, but it need not occur during the breakout itself. Once the volume attracts attention, buyers may rush in (particularly amateurs; the professionals bought before the breakout) and sellers can then increase the amount of whatever it is they're selling (shares, contracts, etc). That results in an increase in volume, i.e., transactions, i.e., activity.

No argument here

===============================

Me thinks we’re sayin essentially the same thing – you’re doing it more eloquently however

Go figure

RN