History of the Income Tax in the United States

Quote from OneLeggedJane:

I agree that a guy like Kenneth Griffin, who bagged a cool billion in 2006-07 is ridiculous when he told Congress that if he didn't get carried interest tax treatment (15% tax rate on his earnings as opposed to straight income) that he wouldn't work as hard.

However, taxes at rates so high as to be confiscatory, anything beyond 40% in my opinion, are destructive and counterproductive. If someone earns 20 million, then he should not forfeit a majority of his earnings to the Treasury. Punitive taxation promotes tax evasion strategies, many illegal, many openly illegal. People cheat. Reasonable taxation encourages compliance.
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Thanks you for reminding me about carried interest, probably the number one most outrageous loophole. It's funny that the dems have zero interest in addressing it. I'm sure all those big contributions from hedge fund managers have nothing to do with it. They prefer to address the guy making $200k.

I totally agree about high marginal rates being destructive,etc. That's exactly why I want them imposed on over the top exec comp packages. My underlying point is that a CEO does not really "earn" $20 mill or 60 mill or whatever. It is being stolen from shareholders through a terribly broken system of corporate governance. Of course it encourages cheating, but that is harder for CEOs than say, drug dealers. If they cheat, prosecute them and put them into prison.
 
Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

Thanks you for reminding me about carried interest, probably the number one most outrageous loophole. It's funny that the dems have zero interest in addressing it. I'm sure all those big contributions from hedge fund managers have nothing to do with it. They prefer to address the guy making $200k.

I totally agree about high marginal rates being destructive,etc. That's exactly why I want them imposed on over the top exec comp packages. My underlying point is that a CEO does not really "earn" $20 mill or 60 mill or whatever. It is being stolen from shareholders through a terribly broken system of corporate governance. Of course it encourages cheating, but that is harder for CEOs than say, drug dealers. If they cheat, prosecute them and put them into prison.
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Don't worry. If Buffet is by his side, he will address it.
 
Quote from hofficita:

Who are you (or the government) to decide what is a fair salary and what is not? You don't like what a CEO makes, don't buy his stock or his product.

In addition, you know very well that the progressive income tax system is incompatible with the Constitution, as originally written, and with the intentions of the founders. Why would you propose measures to further increase the size of the government?
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It's not that simple. These CEO hogs have wrecked our entire system and undermined confidence in capitalism. We just elected a socialist in part because of that. I don't relish government or some oversight body deciding what is fair compensation nor can I tell you, but I can tell you that CEOs making anything over $5 or 6 mill is not right. It's just too out of line for what other professionals and executives make. Being CEO is a trust, not a license to see how much one can steal. They don't make it in most other countries.

I am totally against progrssive taxation, I think it offends the Constitution, but the courts have approved it and voters seem to love it. As I said, I would prefer the SEC deal with the failure of corporate goverance that leads to these outrageious comp packages, but they are either asleep at the switch or fatally compromised by conficts of interest.
 
Quote from clacy:

Punative tax rates??? What exactly are you saying here? That someone who is ultra successful, should be punished?

It's no suprise that you are in the DC area.
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I'm saying no executive is worth more than $5 or 6 mill in compensation. If they need more of an incentive to come to work in the morning, let them buy stock with their own money like you and I do.

A wise man once told me, "the cemetaries are filled with indispensable people. " Most of these big companies pretty much run themselves. The top guys are not indispensable, they are just good corporate politicians or lucky.

I'm not sure what that crack about the DC area is supposed to mean, but if you read a few of my posts, you will see I am about as conservative as anyone on this board. I am not talking about punishing success per se but about addressing a failure in corporate governance that leads to a few people abusing their positions to steal from the shareholders.
 
Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

I'm saying no executive is worth more than $5 or 6 mill in compensation. If they need more of an incentive to come to work in the morning, let them buy stock with their own money like you and I do.

A wise man once told me, "the cemetaries are filled with indispensable people. " Most of these big companies pretty much run themselves. The top guys are not indispensable, they are just good corporate politicians or lucky.

I'm not sure what that crack about the DC area is supposed to mean, but if you read a few of my posts, you will see I am about as conservative as anyone on this board. I am not talking about punishing success per se but about addressing a failure in corporate governance that leads to a few people abusing their positions to steal from the shareholders.
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I agree that most of these guys are way overpaid and yes, just about all of them are replacable, but I have a big problem with the goverment telling ANYONE, what they can or cannot make.

Just think about the term "punitive tax rates" for a minute. That's frightening and not what this country was founded on.
 
Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

It's not that simple. These CEO hogs have wrecked our entire system and undermined confidence in capitalism. We just elected a socialist in part because of that. I don't relish government or some oversight body deciding what is fair compensation nor can I tell you, but I can tell you that CEOs making anything over $5 or 6 mill is not right. It's just too out of line for what other professionals and executives make. Being CEO is a trust, not a license to see how much one can steal. They don't make it in most other countries.

I am totally against progrssive taxation, I think it offends the Constitution, but the courts have approved it and voters seem to love it. As I said, I would prefer the SEC deal with the failure of corporate goverance that leads to these outrageious comp packages, but they are either asleep at the switch or fatally compromised by conficts of interest.
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Let me first say that I think you are one of the smartest guys on ET, but you are dead wrong on this issue. Runaway exec comp is not a failure of the SEC or corporate governance. It is a failure on the part of stupid shareholders who allow it. If you think a CEO is getting paid too much, invest in a different company (there are plenty with modest exec comps). If enough people agree with you, the company will decrease in value to a point where they will be forced to change comp or will be taken private.

Of course, if there is fraud or a demonstrable breach of fiduciary responsibility, take them to court.
 
Quote from propseeker:

yea, and by almost, i guess you mean about 100 years later... and then only for about 6 years before people came to their senses and smashed it again, even voting it unconstitutional. did you even read the article you posted?
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By the beginning I mean shortly after the industrial revolution that took place. Otherwise before that, tax what? Before that, no one took note of this country. It is worth arguing we weren't even a nation until Lincoln united north and south.

nitro
 
Quote from nitro:

Here is my expectations from the Obama team:

1) Let the Bush tax cuts expire.
2) Raise capital gains tax to something like 25% to 28%.
3) Raise taxes on people that make $300k+ [move it up a little bit from $250k].
4) Cut taxes on the others.

In spirit, very close to what Clinton did, and was advised to do by Rubin [read his memoirs].

nitro
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If capital gains goes anywhere near 27% i'm quitting. Not worth it then IMO with still having to pay state. It comes out to approx 40%.

Rather get a job.
 
Quote from nitro:

Ask me again in two years.

nitro
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No I won't ask you in two years... the question should be answered now. We vote in politicians on the basis of what our CURRENT assessment of their policies hold for the future. We aren't chooisng a date or a "summer girlfriend"; we are choosing the POTUS.

So again I ask "Is this good"? What do you think TODAY and why?
 
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