History of the Income Tax in the United States

Quote from nitro:

Ok,

1) For me, it is likely to be detrimental if all I measure is how much money I take home after taxes.

2) For the general economy? Very difficult to say. Most of the employment in this country is done by small businesses. Taxing these guys at $250k is going to cause the following effects: a) Prices are going to rise and be passed on to the consumer. b) small businesses will fire one person to make up for lost profits.

3) On the other hand, there is no way to measure the immense hope that it will give people that felt there was no way out. The smart ones will take this opportunity to raise themselves out of poverty and raise their level of training/education. Now that most of these people [may] no longer have to have two or more jobs just to survive, they may take that spare time to increase their education, and perhaps for the first time in their life take it seriously. That will have huge implications for our economy.

4) The entire rest of the world likely will see us in a more benign light. We will export medicine, technology, education, services, etc etc, instead of bombs. That should make our world safer and will create new customers.

In conclusion, I think it will overall be beneficial to us all, even though out of my pocket I will pay for it in the short term.

nitro

nitro, I've read many of your posts over the years and respect you.

I truly can't believe a trader made the points you made in (3) and (4). I just can't. This is pure emotional analysis --- more of "hope and change"....and emotional analysis and hope are the greatest enemies of a good trader.

What has hapened to America. Everyone has been hynotised by Prophet Obama.

God Help America.
 
Quote from Daal:

so you think increasing welfare could help to increase people's motivation to study and educate themselves?psycology says its just the opposite

the obama scheme plans to remove resources from the already economically productive people to give to the non productive and you 'hope' they will be smart enough to improve themselves?go ahead and make the 'fairness' argument but as far as growth is concerned it wont help, it can't
 
Quote from Cesko:

No it's not good.
No need for stupid degrees to figure it out. Check the world trend of cap. gain tax rates for example. World figured it out. Asshole Obamarx and company still hasn't.
It's about fiscal responsibility isn't it? So how about privatizing postal service?
Huge wastefull chunk of government gone and we get cheaper and better service. Imagine how much efficiency would be gained.

Someone obviously has never worked in a corporation.
 
I think the Post Office does a pretty good job considering what they do......

Delivering millions of items daily!!....very low price....

What corp would you use as an example? Auto? Airlines? Wall St? Fannie/Freddie?


Very well run private businesses are actually very rare....

There are enough problems to be addressed without screwing with one that actually works.....

IMHO,

SteveD
 
Quote from SteveD:

I think the Post Office does a pretty good job considering what they do......

Delivering millions of items daily!!....very low price....

What corp would you use as an example? Auto? Airlines? Wall St? Fannie/Freddie?


Very well run private businesses are actually very rare....

There are enough problems to be addressed without screwing with one that actually works.....

IMHO,

SteveD

No need to waste time to argue about this. Government can run things better everybody knows that, right?

P.S. I just like your objectivity, talking about Post office you conveniently forget about UPS, FedEx.
 
Quote from Cesko:

No need to waste time to argue about this. Government can run things better everybody knows that, right?

No but USPS is actually pretty well run.


P.S. I just like your objectivity, talking about Post office you conveniently forget about UPS, FedEx.

You're hilarious and just pwned yourself. UPS and FedEx have been sh*t since they went public & cashed out. The amount of crap that goes on with them is beyond what I have ever experienced with any government bureaucracy. Lost packages, stolen packages, damaged packages, refusals to leave notices on door or even trying to deliver, straight up lies about visiting the location, etc. were a regular occurence. It got to the point where I refused to do any business with UPS and requested USPS when receiving. I still give FedEx a try, but they are not that much better.

DHL is reliable but very expensive. USPS is the best bang for your buck and has been quite reliable. Often they are able to transport faster than UPS or Fedex.
 
Quote from GermanTrader:

Regarding tax rates that used to make people upset, the Boston Tea Party was a revolt over a tax rate of 2%.

That's not the real cause of the revolution, it was over England trying to force their monetary system on the colonies.
 
Quote from CPTrader:

nitro, I've read many of your posts over the years and respect you.

I truly can't believe a trader made the points you made in (3) and (4). I just can't. This is pure emotional analysis --- more of "hope and change"....and emotional analysis and hope are the greatest enemies of a good trader.

What has hapened to America. Everyone has been hynotised by Prophet Obama.

God Help America.
I know, I know, I am a trader therefore I am automatically an Ayn Rand groupie.

Look, I am not a cartoon character. Money is a tool to me. I make it and work hard to earn it. But I believe we live in an ecosystem of people that coevolves. I have said it before on ET. I would love it if one day, the entire world population of workers said, I am not going to work today, or all the armed forces of the world said, I am not fighting today, or the garbage man to say, we are not picking up the garbage today. Do you see where I am going??? People don't realize their very existence rests on the back of each other in the most trivial of ways.

You refer to God in your post. If Christ's last words on this earth were:


“Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” [“My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”] - Matthew 27:46

What makes anyone believe that they can't feel abandoned? Is this not the central argument of the entire bible?

nitro
 
Quote from nitro:

I know, I know, I am a trader therefore I am automatically a Ayn Rand groupie.

Look, I am not a cartoon character. Money is a tool to me. I make it and work hard to earn it. But I believe we live in an ecosystem that coevolves. I have said it before on ET. I would love it if one day, the entire world population of workers said, I am not going to work today, or all the armed forces of the world said, I am not fighting today, or the garbage man to say, we are not picking up the garbage today. Do you see where I am going???

If Christ's last words on this earth were:



What makes anyone believe that they can't feel abandoned? Is this not the central argument of the entire bible?

nitro


nitro, I'm no Ayn Rand groupie.

I also do believe that society & govt has a role to play in providing for the less fortunate - not necessarily via welfare in the guise of Obama "tax credits".

I also don't think that society thrives under a socialistic or pseudo -socialistic mindsent.

The problem here is not taxes per se, but the scarcity of BIG IDEAS in America. The constant argument of raising marginal tax rates for some, and lowering tax rates for others is not the issue.

Questions:

Why does govt need taxes?

What are govt & societal financial needs?

What's the current structure of the govt's budget? Is it ideal? Can it be modified/revamped?

What's the best form of taxation to meet govt & societal financial needs?

Those are the key questions.
 
I agree, it is abusive.

nitro
Quote from TM_Direct:

A real lesson in taxes:

You drive to work in your new 20k car...the government takes in about $1200.oo in sales tax

You stop and fill up your new car with Gas and the gov't takes in about 35 cents per gallon

You call your mom on the way to work on your cell phone and the gov' taxes both your cell phone and your home phone with 'special fees and taxes for use"

YOU go to work and earn 1000.00 ( the fed takes 275.00)

You decide to invest 500.00 on an OTC BB stock and end up making 100k in a few years ( gov't takes 28k as cap gain)

You get paid a handsome dividend from this stock and now the gov't wants to take a 10% cut of this too
.
You take some of the money and put it into an IRA and invest wisely and it grows, but if you touch it before a certain age the gov't wants about 40% when tax and penalties are accounted for.

You continue to invest in the market and everytime you regular account makes 10k, the go'vt wants $2800 even though they have no risk in this.

You drive home (the gov't takes about 500.00 per month in property taxes to allow you to live there) and walk in the door and flick on the light...the gov't takes about 7 % monthly in taxes and special fees for electricity.

You decide to sit back and have a beer and whack off to a skin-a-max repeat of 'Emanuele in outer space"..the gov takes a huge piece of your beer (about 20%and even has special taxes on your cable bill (5-7%

Pissed off that your cable went out just as Emanuele was going to teach the Zog's about love, you pull out a smoke ..gov't takes a buck or more per pack

You flick on the Internet to check your stock portfolio and the government takes monthly fees for Internet use

you meet a chick online and decide to meet for a drink downtown...so you get into a car that you government has already bilked you for , put in more gas that they bilk you even more for and then use a road that te government decided to charge 3.00 to use.

You find parking downtown but you have to give the government 5.00 in quarters to park on their streets

you meet the girl, get drunk take 2 viagra and have a heart attack and die while having sex in a nearby hotel (the gov't takes 18-20% in some cities for renting the hotel)
..
Now the government wants a piece of your IRA and estate because you had the audacity to die

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Nitto.....Is this what the founding fathers had in mind?
 
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