History and Movies

[AK Forty Seven]

Quote from Lucrum:

YOU made the statement. I quoted it. YOU are the source of the statement.

BTW you moron,my comment was in response to the thread title which was "White Americans So Freaking Stupid".I didn't call misterno a racist you fucking idiot

 

[Mav88]

The 332d Fighter Group sometimes escorted bombers that were shot down by enemy aircraft. This paper will focus on five days when this occurred: June 9, 1944; July 12, 1944; July 18, 1944; July 20, 1944; and March 24, 1945. There might have been other days as well

Bold emphasis mine. The Air Force Historian analyzed 5 of the 33 escort missions of the 332nd and counted 25 bomber losses, that was the source of the number 25.

After that he loooked at 3 more missions and came up with 7 possibles.

Out of 8 missions analyzed we have 25-32 lost bombers. The other 25 missions were not analyzed. It is safe to say that more bombers were lost on those 25 missions. 25 is not an accurate number, it is probably more like 50-100 if all missions were analyzed.

 

[Mav88]

You certainly are .You are also a piece of shit racist .

oh well, some people are threatened by honest discussion, that's all I can say.

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from AK Forty Seven:

BTW you moron,my comment was in response to the thread title which was "White Americans So Freaking Stupid".I didn't call misterno a racist you fucking idiot

Make up your mind, am I a moron or a fucking idiot?

You called someone a racist in that post.

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from Mav88:

oh well, some people are threatened by honest discussion, that's all I can say.

Isn't that the truth.

 

[Mav88]

A clear picture is emerging about the myth and folklore of the 332nd. when did the myth start?

What is the origin of the statement that the Tuskegee Airmen’s 332d Fighter Group had “the distinction of never losing a bomber they were escorting to enemy aircraft fire”? The first mention of the 332d Fighter Group not losing bombers appears in the March 10, 1945 issue of Liberty magazine in an article by Roi Ottley called “Dark Angels of Doom” (pages 13 and 54). Ottley wrote: “Proof of their sincerity is the fact that in more than 100 combat missions on which the Red Tails have given escort cover to their “Big Friends”- the long-range heavy bombers-they haven’t lost a single ship to enemy fighters!”48 Historical researcher Bob Iversen discovered a March 24, 1945 article in the black newspaper Chicago Defender entitled “332nd Flies Its 200th Mission Without Loss.”49 The article does not mention anyone as a source, but does say “with the 15th Air Force, Italy.” A War Department press release dated 21 June 1945, which announced that Colonel Benjamin O. Davis was assuming command of the 477th Bombardment Group, repeated the Chicago Defender wording almost exactly. It noted that “On February 28, 1945, Colonel Davis’ Group had completed 200 missions with the 15th Air Force and had served as escort to heavy bombers without losing a single bomber to enemy fighters.”50 Apparently the March 24, 1945 article statement was repeated in the
19
official press release of June 21, despite the fact that it was historically inaccurate at the time it was issued. The 332d Fighter Group flew its 200th mission for the Fifteenth Air Force on February 28, 1945. The dates I found bombers under 332d Fighter Group escort shot down by enemy aircraft were 9 June 1944, 12 July 1944, 18 July 1944, 20 July 1944, and 24 March 1945. In my research, I found there might have been no losses of bombers under Tuskegee Airmen escort between July 1944 and March 1945. It is possible that persons not familiar with the losses before August 1944 might have been led to believe there had been no losses when the 332d Fighter Group flew its 200th mission on 28 February 1945, since there might have been no bombers lost while under 332d Fighter Group escort for seven months in a row.

So 25 is possible, but not probable. In any event they flew 311 missions, not 200 but if you consider that for most of their missions they encounteed no enemy fighters or were escorting no bombers then 200 might seem reasonable.

I'm sure that as the pilots of the other fighter groups grew older they became more irritated at the misrepresentation of the 332nd since it was insulting to all the others who had given so much. I think they were also mad that the members of the 332nd didn't seem to be doing anything to stop the mythology. Therefore the Air Force ordered an investigation. The number 25 was probably politically satisfying to all parties and end of story as far as research.

If the 332nd had been white, they would have bene buried in the history books since their combat record was good, but not so good as to really stand out. They were black, that was the story, period. A good story worth telling but it can't be just that as we are seeing today.

 

[Mav88]

Isn't that the truth.

terribly sad, we won't get an honest dialoge in our lifetime, all we'll get is the same old blame-guilt-excuse dynamic. no solutions on the horizon