hey HFT scum, yeah, you. Watch this

Quote from WinstonTJ:

#1 - your spelling and grammar are horrible.

#2 - people who look at retail order flow (though I'm not defending them and I think its wrong) take on a certain amount of risk - the problem is that the reward is far greater than the risk they take. Institutional order flow is different, I still think there is a skew between risk/reward but there is a need.

Interactive Brokers - Timber Hill
Etrade - Citadel
ToS - Citadel (and others)
Ameritrade - Citadel (and others)

^^^ they are all fleecing you. The only reason they have not is because they pay the advertisements on CNBC...

You people need to learn a thing or two and drop the flash orders argument - yeah... it happened, it was wrong, still is wrong, its being phased out/banned so drop it.

The ONLY people that get to see order flow and decide whether or not they want to trade on it or pass it on are shops that internalize (even some shady prop firms have tried this in the past).

Its really a joke that people like 777 aren't banned from ET. The information is false, the person posting has no clue and the moderators don't enforce. 777 I welcome you to come to NYC and see how things really work. I've sent you PMs trying to talk to you and you ignore me because you like to copy/paste zerohedge more than you like to learn. Its obvious to most that you don't have a clue about the markets and the sad thing is that your misinformation might actually hurt another person's trading or cause someone to form a false opinion based on lies and BS.
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1. I typically type here while I am on the phone. Its called multi tasking... this task gets a very low priority.

2. Phased out... I must have missed the memo. I have seen the SEC say it is looking in to it. Do you have link?

By the way, I have been a member of multiple exchanges... I let my licenses expire but I have traded tens of millions of shares. I understand front running and what it does to the integrity of the nasdaq market.
 
Quote from jem:

2. Phased out... I must have missed the memo. I have seen the SEC say it is looking in to it. Do you have link?
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"As of May 2010[update], the proposals have not been implemented. Even though most programs have been stopped voluntarily, it is still possible, at least with Direct Edge"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_trading

(I didn't mean banned by the SEC, I meant banned by the ECNs)

Pretty much its over - the markets are an amazing thing. People have adapted and have either been run out of the space, stopped the practice or the edge has been saturated or arb'd out. There really is no need to ban flash trading now that algorithims have advanced like this - Market Makers know what is real and what isn't.

Quote from jem:

By the way, I have been a member of multiple exchanges... I let my licenses expire but I have traded tens of millions of shares. I understand front running and what it does to the integrity of the nasdaq market.
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Then why such the argument? If you don't want to discuss here please feel free to send me a PM. I think its pretty clear that we all agree front running is bad but I also think its pretty clear that people in the know understand that HFT does not front run.

Can you provide any valid links/examples that demonstrate HFT frontrunning orders? The only examples I can think of are internalization, which isn't really HFT.
 
Prior to your link I had seen no reports that it has ended by nasdaq although your wikipedia article is interesting and I am reading the links right now.

If the nasdaq has really ended flash orders... my main concern with hft is eliminated.
 
Quote from Bob111:

i have..but...i'm having problems with those flash fucks when they post 1000 shares @ 3.00$-> you hit buy at this price and size->they withdraw their offer immediately and move order to 3.01 for example. or you going to receive a 1 share of your 1000 shares order,in example above and they move price few cents above. or someone buy this 1000 shares lot right AFTER you click your buy button and price moving up,no shares for you.
the list of those tricks is pretty long
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That has nothing to do with HFT. Nothing.

High
Frequency
Trading

high = a lot
frequency = in terms of time
trading = exchanging risk at a time and price

Not frontrunning, not gaming some retail joker's 1000 lot.

Jesus can you people read?
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brownegg-here is my examples of how HFT or whatever you prefer to call it impact the markets and me in particular ..i would appreciate your comments on those particular examples above, rather than saying some shit that make no sense...
one of my favored depeche mode songs comes to mind-"try walking in my shoes."

just fucking try it..or try to explain the "fairness"

Thank you!
 
Winston wants me banned because I keep the pressure on.

I'll go away the same day the hft colocated frontrunning microarb fake size botnets go away.

Hold your breath.


PS If the ONLY crime was the colocation, that would be bad enough. That the exchanges sanction and bless it means diddly.
 
Quote from Bob111:

i have..but...i'm having problems with those flash fucks when they post 1000 shares @ 3.00$-> you hit buy at this price and size->they withdraw their offer immediately and move order to 3.01 for example. or you going to receive a 1 share of your 1000 shares order,in example above and they move price few cents above. or someone buy this 1000 shares lot right AFTER you click your buy button and price moving up,no shares for you.
the list of those tricks is pretty long
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1. If you have a mouse in your hand, you are TOO SLOW. Learn to deal with it, it's not changing.

2. NO exchange will allow for participants to aggress / take liquidity ahead of another order that does so first.

3. NO exchange will allow ANY participant to "pull their order" when a matching one is presented. Nor can the resting order choose to only execute some and delete/pull the rest.

If you don't believe, go to the exchange websites and download the rule books. These are publicly traded, heavily regulated and seriously scrutinized companies we're talking about, not a card game in Chinatown. Much like Las Vegas, legit businesses don't have to cheat or bend the rules: doing things above the table is lucrative enough that it's not worth risking.

Look, what you described is frustrating. It happens to everyone, including me. But that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the system or the rules as they exist. By the time that order can be seen on a screen and "clicked", probably 500ms has gone by. And that's if your delivery is good and you're ridiculously fast with your mouse. Likely it's far longer than that. In a world where 200 orders / second is possible with $2k/mo of leased software, why would you even expect you could get filled in the first place?

I'm not saying there's not shady elements of the markets--but there are shady elements in shipping, utilities, construction, real estate, government, education, and everything else you can think of.

I've watched 99% of the guys who used to make $200-300k a year on the floor take jobs as salesmen, mortgage brokers, financial planners, etc., because once they weren't handed vig on a silver platter they became extinct. Sorry to be harsh, but the same is mostly true for the solo daytrader, and it will only get worse. That's how capitalism works.

Adapt or perish. I did it, and others did it. Decide if you're going to do it. Just don't whine about it or blame anyone other than yourself.
 
Quote from science_trader:

http://arxiv.org/abs/1007.2593
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Thanks for the link, will read later.



the egg says the solo daytrader is dead but gives no empirical evidence as to why.

look at any series of charts of any random day and tell me why a trader with even a 10 minute time horizon can't make money.
 
"This thread you created"... you seem to say things like that a lot. You do realize success in the markets is measured in buying power of some sort, right? Not posts/views on ET?

777: You, and the people who pay attention to you (though I wonder if they exist), get what they deserve. Your concept of "trader" is literally laughable. PT Barnum was truly a prescient man.
 
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