hey HFT scum, yeah, you. Watch this

[WinstonTJ]

Quote from RedDuke:

Hi WinstonTJ,

Do you mind putting your own explanation about what HFT really is.

First of all ZH should be banished from the internet and never considered a valid source for anything outside humor.

In response to 777's post: I'm ruining my own thread? By posting evidence from third parties that the HFT community are criminals?

The whole purpose of HFT is to frontrun EVERYONE ALL THE TIME. Is that simple enough for ya?


You are a pitiful apologist , fooling no one.


What about arbitrage? Market making? Neither Arbitrage nor Market Making front runs anything. The thing that I find ironic is most people on ET hate on HFT (when they don't even understand what it is) while your retail broker internalizes order flow and royally F's you over on every fill.

There are several tiers in the HFT game and most would say what I do is HFT however the ONLY reason why I automate is because I can't manually trade all the strategies at once (one at a time no problem). People like 777 are trolls and have no purpose here. The HFT debate is over, everyone knows it exists, everyone understands the barrier to entry and everyone knows that computers are here to stay. That said - has anyone looked at the DECLINE in retail order flow to the exchanges since internalization began? HFT pulls money out of the market just like any other strategy does - but at least its within the direct access pool where people know that they are swimming with big fish. Even more funny than all of the above is that with direct access AND HFT you are still better off than getting F'd over by internalization.

777's general statements and copy/pastes are wrong. He/she/it is an ignorant poster lacking the education to understand even the most basic concepts. The purpose of HFT is not to frontrun anyone. Flash trading is banned so drop it. Sub-penny trading is price improvement (your fills are better) and is arbitrage on spreads - if you don't like it change your order or move to a broker where you can submit better orders. Low latency is a higher barrier to entry and thats it.

To answer your question directly, IMO HFT is exactly that - high frequency. Lots of round trips. If you could trade the strategy manually in one stock but not in 50 stocks then its not HFT. Just because a computer buys and sells for you is not HFT. Even news trades that compete in the sub 100ms arena is not HFT since you could compete with a hotkey and a stop.

 

[SunTrader]

The thing about copy & paste is you can .......copy and paste something into google and find the original source.

Unless that link is just another copy and paste version, which so often is.

Kind-a-like a joke that changes the more times it is told making it hard to determine the real facts.

Thanks brownegg and Winston for setting things straight.

 

[stock777]

i love how the fools avoid discussion of any of the manipulative aspects of what goes on.

head in the sand or self serving?

 

[WinstonTJ]

Quote from stock777:

i love how the fools avoid discussion of any of the manipulative aspects of what goes on.

head in the sand or self serving?

Why don't you tell us, in your own words, what is manipulative? How does all of HFT front run and rob people?

Remember you can't use the Ctrl, C or V buttons in your response.

 

[ammo]

flashing 2000 lot offers at every price away from either the bid or offer and pulling em every few seconds is putting up a false front(lying),front running large orders so they have to buy higher or sell lower is manipulaive(stealing),why would you want (citadel)and many others to have ameritrade(and many others) show you every offer and bid a split second before it hits the tape,this is frontrunning, insider info and its illegal,saying every one does it or that the sec is stupid or paid off to look the other way doesnt make it right, its stealing,u know it ,i know it, a five year old would recognize it ,you havent any doubt about these facts so why do you ask such stupid questions

 

[brownegg]

Quote from ammo:

flashing 2000 lot offers at every price away from either the bid or offer and pulling em every few seconds is putting up a false front(lying),front running large orders so they have to buy higher or sell lower is manipulaive(stealing),why would you want (citadel)and many others to have ameritrade(and many others) show you every offer and bid a split second before it hits the tape,this is frontrunning, insider info and its illegal,saying every one does it or that the sec is stupid or paid off to look the other way doesnt make it right, its stealing,u know it ,i know it, a five year old would recognize it ,you havent any doubt about these facts so why do you ask such stupid questions

So you've never posted a bid or offer and then deleted it? You've never looked at the depth when determining where to place an order?

If you think Citadel is showing people order flow you're truly a moron.

Apparently a 5 year old wouldn't recognize it.

 

[Bob111]

Quote from brownegg:

So you've never posted a bid or offer and then deleted it? You've never looked at the depth when determining where to place an order?

If you think Citadel is showing people order flow you're truly a moron.

Apparently a 5 year old wouldn't recognize it.

i have..but...i'm having problems with those flash fucks when they post 1000 shares @ 3.00$-> you hit buy at this price and size->they withdraw their offer immediately and move order to 3.01 for example. or you going to receive a 1 share of your 1000 shares order,in example above and they move price few cents above. or someone buy this 1000 shares lot right AFTER you click your buy button and price moving up,no shares for you.
the list of those tricks is pretty long

 

[jem]

Quote from walterjennings:

I hear the invention of this 'motorized carriage' thing will make it hard for stage coaches to make a living. We should really step in and put a stop to this nonsense to protect these jobs.

But seriously. Anyone who is 'against HFT' really doesn't understand what they are talking about.

anyone who is not against some people getting a look at and interact with order flow before others... as happens on nasdaq..... must be an sec employee.

 

[brownegg]

Quote from jem:

anyone who is not against some people getting a look at and interact with order flow before others... as happens on nasdaq..... must be an sec employee.

That has nothing to do with HFT. Nothing.

High
Frequency
Trading

high = a lot
frequency = in terms of time
trading = exchanging risk at a time and price

Not frontrunning, not gaming some retail joker's 1000 lot.

Jesus can you people read?

 

[jem]

Quote from brownegg:

That has nothing to do with HFT. Nothing.

High
Frequency
Trading

high = a lot
frequency = in terms of time
trading = exchanging risk at a time and price

Not frontrunning, not gaming some retail joker's 1000 lot.

Jesus can you people read?

I think you need to learn the reality of of HFT and how and why it is so profitable for the people who get to co locate computers and peak at the order flow. The front running on flash orders is hidden within the HFT moniker instead of calling it HFFrontrunning.... to fool the public.