It is their business model : hire kids with low wages, and bill them at an expensive rate. Nothing more, no value added. If those guys still get business, it's all about corruption and old relationships
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Hedge funds guys top NYC Salary Guide
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It is their business model : hire kids with low wages, and bill them at an expensive rate. Nothing more, no value added. If those guys still get business, it's all about corruption and old relationships
Even if they are billed low rates tell me of a job other than consulting or ibanking that offers rewards in the 75Ks to 22 year old college grads with quite a bit of job security? There are almost none. They hourly rates may be low but how many corps are willing to pay these amounts. All jobs at the top require effort and dedication. In trading you have lower hours but significantly higher stress. In consulting and IBD you have much higher hours but considerably less stress.
People who accept a job in consulting as a first job are the ones who will end up later in the management of large companies...just because in 5 years they have become completely stupid...and as you certainly know this is a common characteristic to most managers...
I have seen so many old friends from university who were really great scientists and have become like that after just a few years in consulting.
I have seen so many old friends from university who were really great scientists and have become like that after just a few years in consulting.
I figured that most of the people here just jump right to conclusions. Especially the "newsletter" concept.
I wasn't 3 months out of college, to be clear. I was 3 months out of getting a doctorate, from a fairly good university. But I guess from an industry experience perspective, that doesn't make a lot of difference.
The consulting engagement team was given a lot of information that most of the firm (including some of the CIO's directs) have no access to, and is expected to give a complete analysis of the situation. And that perspective, the consulting team is very useful, since virtually every firm employee would give a biased view that attempts to "play politics" or just limited in the corners of the enterprise that they work in.
For instance, let's say you put a good developer (let's say a great one) in from of the CIO of his large firm (10000+), most of what they say will have no perspective what so ever, the concept of transfer costs, enterprise architecture is completely lost at the developer level. The person will just get stuck on, "why can't I increase the memory for *my* server, it takes *2* hours, not a week", completely ignorant of normal processes and procedures, documentation, etc.
But what the consultants tend to be lacking at is trying to solve real problems, since they won't have the charter nor the responsibility to implement the change. So the end result looks like the consultants "left a pile of powerpoints, but where is the real output?" the consultants would say "the analysis is what you paid for." It require the top management to push through the changes necessary.
I was billing about $325 a hour almost 10 years ago, so I figure that a person at my old level (consulting manager) would be billing about $450 - 500 these days. I know it sounds like a lot, but in the grand scale of enterprise IT budgets, that is not a lot.
I wasn't 3 months out of college, to be clear. I was 3 months out of getting a doctorate, from a fairly good university. But I guess from an industry experience perspective, that doesn't make a lot of difference.
The consulting engagement team was given a lot of information that most of the firm (including some of the CIO's directs) have no access to, and is expected to give a complete analysis of the situation. And that perspective, the consulting team is very useful, since virtually every firm employee would give a biased view that attempts to "play politics" or just limited in the corners of the enterprise that they work in.
For instance, let's say you put a good developer (let's say a great one) in from of the CIO of his large firm (10000+), most of what they say will have no perspective what so ever, the concept of transfer costs, enterprise architecture is completely lost at the developer level. The person will just get stuck on, "why can't I increase the memory for *my* server, it takes *2* hours, not a week", completely ignorant of normal processes and procedures, documentation, etc.
But what the consultants tend to be lacking at is trying to solve real problems, since they won't have the charter nor the responsibility to implement the change. So the end result looks like the consultants "left a pile of powerpoints, but where is the real output?" the consultants would say "the analysis is what you paid for." It require the top management to push through the changes necessary.
I was billing about $325 a hour almost 10 years ago, so I figure that a person at my old level (consulting manager) would be billing about $450 - 500 these days. I know it sounds like a lot, but in the grand scale of enterprise IT budgets, that is not a lot.
Quote from mahras2:
No first year college kid is sent. Usually a team handles the problem. These consulting firms are actually very important to industries. Not everyone is born as Jack Welch so you hire a management consulting firm. If they were so useless then they wouldnt exist.
I bet that most of the folks here would take those jobs in a heartbeat if they could get em.
Quote from science_trader:
People who accept a job in consulting as a first job are the ones who will end up later in the management of large companies...just because in 5 years they have become completely stupid...and as you certainly know this is a common characteristic to most managers...
I have seen so many old friends from university who were really great scientists and have become like that after just a few years in consulting.
You cant just judge the entire industry based on a few individuals. Some of the smartest guys in the industry are there. It may seem easy to manage a company being a bystander. However, its a different story when actually doing it. Its kind of like trading....when you are demoing it seems like the easiest thing in the world. When you put your own money in line....the game changes 180 degrees.
I read the articles of Mckinsey Quarterly now and then, nothing too out of special regarding information. I gain more from brokerage house security analysts than from McKs and Bains.
Also, Newsletters are an excellent source of information and trend spotting. Most of the newsletters are started by industry veterans who have done some real thinking after spending time with industry hands-on. Much Much better than 'Team' from McK who themselves are reading these newsletters and showing up in office next day with another BS smile on face. 90% of consulting is a BS/Shameless waste of money. Like someone already said here.....it's all to coddle the relationships in the corporate world. McK's main source of busines is its former employees who are now in management positions in various industries. $400/hour? Fuck! even emergency room doctors do not make that much.
Also, Newsletters are an excellent source of information and trend spotting. Most of the newsletters are started by industry veterans who have done some real thinking after spending time with industry hands-on. Much Much better than 'Team' from McK who themselves are reading these newsletters and showing up in office next day with another BS smile on face. 90% of consulting is a BS/Shameless waste of money. Like someone already said here.....it's all to coddle the relationships in the corporate world. McK's main source of busines is its former employees who are now in management positions in various industries. $400/hour? Fuck! even emergency room doctors do not make that much.
"since virtually every firm employee would give a biased view that attempts to "play politics" or just limited in the corners of the enterprise that they work in."
you are getting me pissed off dude! Give $10K to any employee with a good idea and you will have soooooo much process efficiency at hand that you might end up paying $10K bonus to each and every employee end of the year. The real politics is the consulting nonsense, real waste of money!
you are getting me pissed off dude! Give $10K to any employee with a good idea and you will have soooooo much process efficiency at hand that you might end up paying $10K bonus to each and every employee end of the year. The real politics is the consulting nonsense, real waste of money!
Actually if people would start posting real numbers about what hedge fund employees make and the comp arrangements, that would be interesting data to share.
None of this "read it in a magazine" stuff.
Also - the millions and zillions made by partners is not that interesting either - anyone can do the math on 1.5 and 25.
It's the various staff packages that is less well known.
None of this "read it in a magazine" stuff.
Also - the millions and zillions made by partners is not that interesting either - anyone can do the math on 1.5 and 25.
It's the various staff packages that is less well known.