Has anyone made consistent trading profits with a purchased system?

[Thunderdog]

Quote from nitro:

FWIW, when I was a programmer at a hedge fund, part of my job was to take "published" systems, or systems that we purchased, program them and see if they held up to rigorous scientific testing. Not 1 in a 1000 did.


nitro

I suspected as much, which is the whole point of my thread. However, it can ostensibly serve as a "clearinghouse" of information for those people still bent of purchasing a system rather than developing their own method.

As an aside, I note that no one has yet reported the profitable use of a bought trading system when used as intended by the system vendor.

 

[easyguru]

Quote from Thunderdog:

since it is reported that most such systems are glorified derivatives of moving average crossover systems, how is that unlike being mugged?

Not true. Not all systems are based on moving average.
Investigating system can help you understand and improve your system. I have looked at many commercially available systems and incorporated them in to my own systems. I have not bought any but you can find out about basic principles of any system by using google or user groups.
The automated system business is also geared towards broker managed system trading customer base, which is large in the futures industry.

 

[Chad_Long]

Quote from Thunderdog:

Since there are systems for sale that run into the thousands of dollars and since it is reported that most such systems are glorified derivatives of moving average crossover systems, how is that unlike being mugged?

I've purchased quite a few systems and seen many more and none of them are anywhere close to being a moving average crossover. Whoever "reports" this to you is clearly part of the problem. If you buy some system out of the back of a magazine or some black box because of some flashy ad then such a crappy system is probably what you'll get. Most of the best systems I trade are from people that have never advertised and don't even have websites. One of them actually took me a month just to track down his phone number. I think this thread is more about publicly advertised systems which may indeed be 99% bad but if you take the time to look and research then you can find some good systems that are available though not highly advertised.

 

[Chad_Long]

Quote from Thunderdog:

As an aside, I note that no one has yet reported the profitable use of a bought trading system when used as intended by the system vendor.

Since you really seem to need some specific names I'll just give you an example of a simple system that has been around as long as just about any and still consistently makes profits every year when traded exactly as intended by the system vendor: R-Breaker.

 

[gms]

Quote from nitro:

when I was a programmer at a hedge fund, part of my job was to take "published" systems, or systems that we purchased, program them and see if they held up to rigorous scientific testing.

A related question that you may be able to answer for me, nitro, is that according to Pruitt and Hill, among the top approaches used by the best trading systems have been:

1. Donchian Channel
2. Moving average cross-over
3. Short term volatility based on opening range breakout

Would you concur with their finding, and if not, what would you say were among the top approaches?

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from easyguru:

Not true. Not all systems are based on moving average.
Investigating system can help you understand and improve your system. I have looked at many commercially available systems and incorporated them in to my own systems. I have not bought any but you can find out about basic principles of any system by using google or user groups.
The automated system business is also geared towards broker managed system trading customer base, which is large in the futures industry.

Then we may still be in agreement. I did not say "all." I said "most." I also used the word "derivative," which suggests that the systems may have other features surrounding the central premise of a moving average crossover. Again, not all, just most. Further, we also seem to be in agreement about not buying the system.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from Chad_Long:

Since you really seem to need some specific names I'll just give you an example of a simple system that has been around as long as just about any and still consistently makes profits every year when traded exactly as intended by the system vendor: R-Breaker.

Are you saying that you have purchased this system and used real money to make real profits with it, consistently over time? If so, then you have addressed the principal question in this thread and I thank you for your input. If you have also used any other bought systems successfully, rather than just read about them, please be sure to list those as well as. Thanks again.

 

[Chad_Long]

Quote from Thunderdog:

Are you saying that you have purchased this system and used real money to make real profits with it, consistently over time? If so, then you have addressed the principal question in this thread and I thank you for your input. If you have also used any other bought systems successfully, rather than just read about them, please be sure to list those as well as. Thanks again.

Yes, I have. I don't intend to post any more for reasons I've previously mentioned. I hesitated to even post this one but I could clearly see that you wouldn't be satisfied until an actual name was given. Other good systems are out there to find, if someone isn't willing to put forth the effort to research and find them then they probably aren't ready for system trading.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from Chad_Long:

Yes, I have. I don't intend to post any more for reasons I've previously mentioned. I hesitated to even post this one but I could clearly see that you wouldn't be satisfied until an actual name was given. Other good systems are out there to find, if someone isn't willing to put forth the effort to research and find them then they probably aren't ready for system trading.

I do believe that you may be missing the whole point of this thread, which is unfortunate. It is about first-hand information sharing for the benefit of those interested in purchasing trading systems. Although I, personally, do not believe there really are any such systems that are available to be bought, that should not detract you from providing a useful service to those ET members who may benefit from your knowledge.

You noted in a previous post to this thread that you purchased profitable systems in the past that were not advertised and had no informational web sites. How are interested readers supposed to use this information? How does anyone find such proprietary systems that are available for sale? Word of mouth? If so, then what is preventing you from sharing this knowledge with like-minded readers? How is word of mouth supposed to work if satisfied buyers such as you do not come forward and share your wisdom? Surely the existence of these vendors is not a secret. If the vendors sold the systems to you, then they sold them to countless others. Why not help your brethren here at ET and at least point them in the right direction, and share your positive experiences with the systems and the vendors? Your evasiveness is not inspiring and your circular argument is not really helping anyone. Or is it? (Sorry, I'm just calling it as I see it.) On a positive note, at least we seem to agree that advertised systems do not appear to have any value.

I would think that time might be better spent designing one's own trading method rather than going on a wild goose chase tracking down mythical system vendors who neither advertise nor have informational web sites. I invite you to prove me wrong.

 

[rwk]

Quote from Thunderdog:

If you have also used any other bought systems successfully, rather than just read about them, please be sure to list those as well as.

In the early days I bought and traded with these systems:
- PBS by Steve Notis
- Swing Catcher by Dave Green
- DCS II by Peter Aan
- Quad by Joe Bristor

That was more than 10 years ago, and I don't have records that far back, but I am pretty sure I made enough with each to cover the purchase price. There may have been other systems as well. I don't trade any of them today, primarily because I am a programmer, and I write my own software now.

When I started, I didn't know exactly what a system was. I also didn't know the difference between a good one and a bad one. The most important thing I learned is that none of these systems suited my needs exactly. Everyone's needs are different.

[Richard]