Happy Columbus Day !

Nobody has a aholiday to celebrate the brutality of the local population but we have a holiday to celebrate a guy who thinks he discovered a land people already lived on and then enslaved and killed the locals in his quest for gold.... there is nothign Christian about what the people did to the locals..

then again Christians are the biggest hypocrites usually so it makes sense.
 
Could somebody else tell Baron he is back? I did the last time but considering my own reputation for being a right bastard, it feels too snitchy :)

As I live in Colombia I can attest to some reading ahead which says, Colombus was a spectacular evil narcissist shit but he made people in Spain a lot of money so quite Trumplike in this regard, he was not convicted for what even the standards of the day were considered crimes against humanity.
 
Bobadilla was angry at Columbus for hanging five Spaniards who had committed atrocities against the natives.[3][4] Bobadilla then ordered the arrest of both Columbus and his brother and that they be taken to Spain.[2][1] He also seized all assets belonging to the two.[2]

The neutrality and accuracy of the accusations and investigations of Bobadilla toward Columbus and his brothers have been disputed by historians, given the anti-Italian sentiment of the Spaniards and Bobadilla's desire to take over Columbus' position.[5][6][3]
 
Columbus was clearly no friend of native peoples, but a document discovered 10 years ago in Simancas, Spain, suggests he was an equal-opportunity tyrant. Witnesses testified that his brief government of Hispaniola was marked by routine cruelty not only to the native Taínos but also to Spaniards who defied or mocked him. A woman who reminded Columbus that he was the son of a weaver had her tongue cut out. Others were executed for minor crimes.
 
Ah screw it, I had a falling steel square tube cut me on the head at the weekend so this bitches already has his stitches...

@Baron it's NY_Hood again! Making a mess.
 
brass_trader said:
Bobadilla was angry at Columbus for hanging five Spaniards who had committed atrocities against the natives.[3][4] Bobadilla then ordered the arrest of both Columbus and his brother and that they be taken to Spain.[2][1] He also seized all assets belonging to the two.[2]

The neutrality and accuracy of the accusations and investigations of Bobadilla toward Columbus and his brothers have been disputed by historians, given the anti-Italian sentiment of the Spaniards and Bobadilla's desire to take over Columbus' position.[5][6][3]
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Italy did not exist in 1490s.....
 
El OchoCinco said:
You do know that Columbus was arrested and sent back in chains to Spain for the atrocities he committed in Haiti.... are you defending Columbus?
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You may want to read the entire history -- this was a effectively dispute over what the Crown owed Columbus... and he demonstrated via the courts in Spain the allegations of brutality were not proven. After this he was allowed to go on his fourth voyage - as well as having his wealth restored after a court case in his favor.

The actual complaints about Columbus from others on his voyages were more around his straight & narrow religious views -- with complaints from others that Columbus expected them to act like monks (at least in regards to "relations" with natives). However Columbus fully supported enslavement of the native population -- and with this came brutality.

There is both good and bad in regards to Columbus' voyages. The bad is that his voyages led to generations of brutal enslavement and poor treatment of native Americans by Spaniards. The brutality of other Spanish explorers goes far beyond anything Columbus did -- but he opened the door for it.

The Dominican Republic has a more nuanced view of the Columbus. They view that he established a basis of their "excellent culture" and Spanish heritage while at the same time putting in place generations of "poor government" -- at the same time they do not gloss over the bad related to Columbus. Yet they don't understand why people in the United States are attempting to erase Columbus from history -- after all the Estados Unidos was not impacted directly by Columbus. Better off to teach history -- including all the good and bad parts.

The Dominican Republic has a huge museum dedicated to Columbus (the "Columbus Lighthouse" aka "Faro a Colon"). There are statues and tributes to Columbus across the country. I have visited Faro a Colon while working in the Dominican Republic.
 
gwb-trading said:
You may want to read the entire history -- this was a effectively dispute over what the Crown owed Columbus... and he demonstrated via the courts in Spain the allegations of brutality were not proven. After this he was allowed to go on his fourth voyage - as well as having his wealth restored after a court case in his favor.

The actual complaints about Columbus from others on his voyages were more around his straight & narrow religious views -- with complaints from others that Columbus expected them to act like monks (at least in regards to "relations" with natives). However Columbus fully supported enslavement of the native population -- and with this came brutality.

There is both good and bad in regards to Columbus' voyages. The bad is that his voyages led to generations of brutal enslavement and poor treatment of native Americans by Spaniards. The brutality of other Spanish explorers goes far beyond anything Columbus did -- but he opened the door for it.

The Dominican Republic has a more nuanced view of the Columbus. They view that he established a basis of their "excellent culture" and Spanish heritage while at the same time putting in place generations of "poor government" -- at the same time they do not gloss over the bad related to Columbus. Yet they don't understand why people in the United States are attempting to erase Columbus from history -- after all the Estados Unidos was not impacted directly by Columbus. Better off to teach history -- including all the good and bad parts.

The Dominican Republic has a huge museum dedicated to Columbus (the "Columbus Lighthouse" aka "Faro a Colon"). There are statues and tributes to Columbus across the country. I have visited Faro a Colon while working in the Dominican Republic.
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Remember offhand what the population of Hispanola was before and after Chris' tenure as governor? And the whole thing about making them seek gold instead of farming etc. genocide. The poor people were committing suicide in large numbers.

Yep, both sides arguments make people who live in right wing areas feel reasonable and fair minded every time.

So its like this, he was a narcissist who got spectacularly lucky, he never showed any sign of conscience whatever. He made people very rich and therefore he became politically invulnerable, his favourable position in history assured (for a few centuries, sort of).
 
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gwb-trading said:
You may want to read the entire history -- this was a effectively dispute over what the Crown owed Columbus... and he demonstrated via the courts in Spain the allegations of brutality were not proven. After this he was allowed to go on his fourth voyage - as well as having his wealth restored after a court case in his favor.

The actual complaints about Columbus from others on his voyages were more around his straight & narrow religious views -- with complaints from others that Columbus expected them to act like monks (at least in regards to "relations" with natives). However Columbus fully supported enslavement of the native population -- and with this came brutality.

There is both good and bad in regards to Columbus' voyages. The bad is that his voyages led to generations of brutal enslavement and poor treatment of native Americans by Spaniards. The brutality of other Spanish explorers goes far beyond anything Columbus did -- but he opened the door for it.

The Dominican Republic has a more nuanced view of the Columbus. They view that he established a basis of their "excellent culture" and Spanish heritage while at the same time putting in place generations of "poor government" -- at the same time they do not gloss over the bad related to Columbus. Yet they don't understand why people in the United States are attempting to erase Columbus from history -- after all the Estados Unidos was not impacted directly by Columbus. Better off to teach history -- including all the good and bad parts.

The Dominican Republic has a huge museum dedicated to Columbus (the "Columbus Lighthouse" aka "Faro a Colon"). There are statues and tributes to Columbus across the country. I have visited Faro a Colon while working in the Dominican Republic.
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When is the bad side of Columbus ever discussed? In Latin America the Spaniards wrote the history because they wiped out most of the local population. No one wants to erase Columbus from history but why should he get a day to celebrate him in a country he never stepped foot in.. Do we have Amerigo Vespucci day or Hudson Day... you know... guys who actually landed in North America...

Columbus day was started by Catholics who wanted a hero to be celebrated... there was no great motive behind other than selfishness....

Columbus is a part of the history of explorers but to put him up on a pedastal like he was a saint is white washing history..... he was directly involved in the enslavement and murder of locals and brutality under his watch even at times if he was not doing it directly.
 
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