Again, it comes down to your definition of "success."
Handling Skepticism from Loved Ones
- Thread starter learninglisted
- Start date
Again, it comes down to your definition of "success."
Quote from learninglisted:
My father-in-law, a man I deeply respect and love, stunned me today ....
Anyone else gone through this? How did you deal with it?
quotes for you and other newer trading bros... to consider:
"Then the time came...
when the risk it took
to remain in a bud
was more painful then
the risk it took to blossom..."
... Anais Nin
"An overnight success... usually takes about ten years"
...Anonymous
((and my favorite one!))
"Others will underestimate us
...for although we judge ourselves
by what we feel capable of doing
others...... judge us only by
what we have already done...!
... Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
learning,
Wow, lots of info has been sent your way!! First of all, you say your wife is supporting your efforts, and that is the MOST important element you have to consider. Your FIL may or may not 'see the light' if you become successful in trading as your career, that is something that only time will reveal.
As to your trading: It is obvious that this is something you feel you can and want to do so I say you should pursue your dream. If you do not, you will always look back with regret thinking of what might have been, and resentment might well up for your FIL and cause even greater problems than may exist now.
I think what you are really looking for is confidence. Do you have a trading strategy that produces consistent results? You seem to know how to bail on losers and ride winners, so you could be very successful with a strategy that is 50%! That is the key in my opinion, having and using a discipline that brings in profits. Your techniques will become more refined over time as things not previously noticed loom into view.
You think ten additional months is needed to 'prove out' what you are doing. Certainly that is enough time, you can probably determine if your current strategy is working long before ten months time.
Once and if you have a workable plan (strategy), test it, test it again and a third time, then put it to work for yourself!
I wish you success, and remember... there has never been a statue erected of a critic.... an oh yes, objects in the rearview mirror are closer than they appear...
Wow, lots of info has been sent your way!! First of all, you say your wife is supporting your efforts, and that is the MOST important element you have to consider. Your FIL may or may not 'see the light' if you become successful in trading as your career, that is something that only time will reveal.
As to your trading: It is obvious that this is something you feel you can and want to do so I say you should pursue your dream. If you do not, you will always look back with regret thinking of what might have been, and resentment might well up for your FIL and cause even greater problems than may exist now.
I think what you are really looking for is confidence. Do you have a trading strategy that produces consistent results? You seem to know how to bail on losers and ride winners, so you could be very successful with a strategy that is 50%! That is the key in my opinion, having and using a discipline that brings in profits. Your techniques will become more refined over time as things not previously noticed loom into view.
You think ten additional months is needed to 'prove out' what you are doing. Certainly that is enough time, you can probably determine if your current strategy is working long before ten months time.
Once and if you have a workable plan (strategy), test it, test it again and a third time, then put it to work for yourself!
I wish you success, and remember... there has never been a statue erected of a critic.... an oh yes, objects in the rearview mirror are closer than they appear...
If you haven't gone through this you've never shared that you intend to "trade" for a living!Quote from learning:
Anyone else gone through this? How did you deal with it?
Those ignorant about trading (99.9999% of the population) always see it as gambling and a foolish impossibility as a means to a substantial and predictable long term income.
The reality is, if everyone knew what I knew about trading, I couldn't make the kind of living I make!
My guess is the vast majority of successful showbiz people were also told they were foolish in their pursuits.
Simply hear them out, if you care to express your "respect", then ignore them. Once they see your lifestyle over a period of time they'll worship you as having some mystical powers!
LOL
Maybe I've missed it in skimming this thread, but I haven't seen anyone deal directly with the "trading is gambling" point that the naysayers. Several have used it as part of their arguments.
Trading and gambling both deal with probabilities. The underlying objection behind the "gambling" argument against trading is an argument against putting money down on the next throw in a game which is a series of random events. The idea behind trading is that it's NOT random. Explain to naysayers that while there are huge uncertianties in the market due to an essentially infinite number of variables in the system, it's not truly random. Markets move because of myriad decisions by people, influenced by events in the world around them. Because of that we can watch key pieces of information looking for repetition of past events (better yet, resemblance to past events), and put money on the probability that something we're seeing now correlates with the likelyhood of something happing in the near future. That's not a random system, that's probabilities.
I find that the people making the "trading = gambling" argument don't understand probabilities and statistics, not only in the markets but in all of life. They think their secure job isn't subject to uncertianties, and that they're not making decisions in their environment in the same way a trader does, but they are - they observe events in their environment (workplace), make decisions for the future based on past correlations, and go blissfully on not knowing how much they're relying on the same types of probability-based decision-making. People make job security decisions based on past performance of their employer in the marketplace, and many have found that their assumptions were wrong. So, their daily decision to stay in their job is just like staying in a trade - they have a trading system and they don't know it!
Trading and gambling both deal with probabilities. The underlying objection behind the "gambling" argument against trading is an argument against putting money down on the next throw in a game which is a series of random events. The idea behind trading is that it's NOT random. Explain to naysayers that while there are huge uncertianties in the market due to an essentially infinite number of variables in the system, it's not truly random. Markets move because of myriad decisions by people, influenced by events in the world around them. Because of that we can watch key pieces of information looking for repetition of past events (better yet, resemblance to past events), and put money on the probability that something we're seeing now correlates with the likelyhood of something happing in the near future. That's not a random system, that's probabilities.
I find that the people making the "trading = gambling" argument don't understand probabilities and statistics, not only in the markets but in all of life. They think their secure job isn't subject to uncertianties, and that they're not making decisions in their environment in the same way a trader does, but they are - they observe events in their environment (workplace), make decisions for the future based on past correlations, and go blissfully on not knowing how much they're relying on the same types of probability-based decision-making. People make job security decisions based on past performance of their employer in the marketplace, and many have found that their assumptions were wrong. So, their daily decision to stay in their job is just like staying in a trade - they have a trading system and they don't know it!
He could be right, but only if you let him. I personally couldn't give a rat's ass about what anyone else (except my wife) had to say about what I do for a living. But if his opinion on a matter like this which you know SO MUCH MORE about than him, can sway you, then it can DISTRACT you. If it distract's you, then it will affect your trading and your FIL has now given you a self-fulfilling prophecy.
You can love and respect him, but you can also acknowledge that there are many things in the world that you don't know about that he knows about, just as you can acknowledge there are many things that he doesn't know about that you know about, and there are many things that most everyone else in the world DOESN'T know about that most everyone else DOES know about.
What I'm saying is that you have knowledge and you MUST have confidence to to follow through on what you know without hesitation or distraction just as you do to hit the button when the trade is ripe for the taking.
See! Right there you said it! You traded before and you did well enough.... and if that's true, then it's just a matter of multiplication to make it a good living... the capital is there if you're there MENTALLY.
And you know what it's like out there. It is now 2003. 4 years ago, high school graduates were FLOODING colleges computer departments because demand FAR outstripped supply. Quarterway-Decent Techies wouldn't even CONSIDER a position that didn't have stock options, a $1200 Areon chair and daily at-desk back massages. Those high school kids graduated in May and the only "regular" jobs they are finding require the words "Do you want fries with that?"
Tell him that you THINK you can flip burgers and they have a nice managerial promotion plan which will get you $25K/year in less than 5 years. But seriously, you said it yourself... you're over 30, you're not a kid, so ACT like it! LISTEN to advice of those you respect, but in the end, the decision is your's, so make it on the merits you know to be true. To this day, I know a lady who regrets not taking an excellent position 30 years ago because her father told her it was more important that she support her husband's career (even though it never had him keeping a job more than 2 years)
If you can't shake his opinion, then maybe you don't need to be trading - you can't effectively without support that YOU deem you need. If your resolve is that weak, the best thing to do is ask him what you should be doing, and have him help you all the way through making it happen. It'll be a lot easier and quicker to achieve HIS goals that way. I mean, that's what you're trying to do, right? It definitely sounds like it.Anyway, I could care less what people I hardly know think about daytrading, but hearing the skepticism and blanket "you can't do it" from a man I care about really has shaken me up - despite the fact that he doesn't know the details of daytrading, just what he hears and reads in the media.
Another thing, I have a baby on the way, our first, and his first grandchild, so I'm sure that's weighing heavily on his mind. I don't begrudge him his being worried and being concerned about his daughter and grandchilds' welfare, but again, his blanket condemnation and inability to at least give me a chance to prove myself has shaken my confidence.
Anyone else gone through this? How did you deal with it?
When people ask me what I do for a living, I tell them I am in Financial Services....that usually shuts them up.
I notice that when I brag it hurts my trading...try to remain humble.
You must get a part-time job after market hours and show your Father-in-Law that you want to provide a stable environment for your growing family. As a side benefit of this, you will improve in your trading as you need social contact.
You will notice when you get the hang of daytrading and are able to make consistant money, you will become more confident. Then when others comment about you personally you will know what you know and have. What they say will have less weight. Focus on your dreams....continue in your vision. When you arrive and have your "ace-in-the-hole", re-read this post.
Believe it or not, your Father-in-Law may never approve of your lifestyle no matter how much money you make. So, you must build upon your inner-strength to cope with this possibility. Do not fall into any trap of trying to please your Father-in-Law .......save that for your wife LOL.
Michael B.
I notice that when I brag it hurts my trading...try to remain humble.
You must get a part-time job after market hours and show your Father-in-Law that you want to provide a stable environment for your growing family. As a side benefit of this, you will improve in your trading as you need social contact.
You will notice when you get the hang of daytrading and are able to make consistant money, you will become more confident. Then when others comment about you personally you will know what you know and have. What they say will have less weight. Focus on your dreams....continue in your vision. When you arrive and have your "ace-in-the-hole", re-read this post.
Believe it or not, your Father-in-Law may never approve of your lifestyle no matter how much money you make. So, you must build upon your inner-strength to cope with this possibility. Do not fall into any trap of trying to please your Father-in-Law .......save that for your wife LOL.
Michael B.
> I got laid off from that secure, regular job despite having terrific >job performance ratings.
>Down-sizing, they call it....It's one of the reasons I want to >really give trading a shot.
This is a bad reason. You are looking for reasons of success when you should look for the good question: can you afford the risk of a failure (financially, psychologically etc) ? If yes go, if no don't go. It would be much easier if you have no person in charge, with a family you must be careful.
>Down-sizing, they call it....It's one of the reasons I want to >really give trading a shot.
This is a bad reason. You are looking for reasons of success when you should look for the good question: can you afford the risk of a failure (financially, psychologically etc) ? If yes go, if no don't go. It would be much easier if you have no person in charge, with a family you must be careful.
Quote from learninglisted:
My father-in-law, a man I deeply respect and love, stunned me today...
Anyone else gone through this? How did you deal with it?
http://www.dickstaub.com/culturewatch.php?record_id=464
"there is the amazing story of Peter Jaquith who was once worth millions and assisted the legendary Felix Rohatyn at Lazard Freres in mega deals. A cocaine habit and some really bad investments resulted in a descent into poverty financially and spiritually.
His climb out began on Easter day when he hid under tables at the Marriott and was awakened by an Easter Service. As he tells it, âI crawled under a table and fell asleep. When I awoke, I looked out and saw people all dressed up. It was Easter morning. I loved the music. It was very uplifting. It was pretty startling to me that I had drifted so far down. I started thinking that living as a homeless person was not how I wanted to end up.â
His recovery involved facing his demons and âbecoming a person my children can love.â
What did his daughter learned from dadâs experience? Pamela reports, âMoney isn't that important. It certainly didn't make my father happy.â"
http://www.postpolitics.com/
"In nearly every American city or town, you can find people like Peter Jaquith. He is 67 and has $150 in his checking account. He lives on $1,100 a month in Social Security and a little help from family members. To make ends meet, he has worked as a deliveryman and a toilet cleaner.
It hasn't always been like this for Mr. Jaquith. In the 1980's, he was a partner at Lazard Frères, the elite investment bank, and the right-hand man of Felix Rohatyn, its legendary deal maker. At his peak, Mr. Jaquith was worth at least $20 million."
So if one has to chose between (virtual) Money and the loved ones...
"there is the amazing story of Peter Jaquith who was once worth millions and assisted the legendary Felix Rohatyn at Lazard Freres in mega deals. A cocaine habit and some really bad investments resulted in a descent into poverty financially and spiritually.
His climb out began on Easter day when he hid under tables at the Marriott and was awakened by an Easter Service. As he tells it, âI crawled under a table and fell asleep. When I awoke, I looked out and saw people all dressed up. It was Easter morning. I loved the music. It was very uplifting. It was pretty startling to me that I had drifted so far down. I started thinking that living as a homeless person was not how I wanted to end up.â
His recovery involved facing his demons and âbecoming a person my children can love.â
What did his daughter learned from dadâs experience? Pamela reports, âMoney isn't that important. It certainly didn't make my father happy.â"
http://www.postpolitics.com/
"In nearly every American city or town, you can find people like Peter Jaquith. He is 67 and has $150 in his checking account. He lives on $1,100 a month in Social Security and a little help from family members. To make ends meet, he has worked as a deliveryman and a toilet cleaner.
It hasn't always been like this for Mr. Jaquith. In the 1980's, he was a partner at Lazard Frères, the elite investment bank, and the right-hand man of Felix Rohatyn, its legendary deal maker. At his peak, Mr. Jaquith was worth at least $20 million."
So if one has to chose between (virtual) Money and the loved ones...
Thanks for all the thoughts/advice/criticism/encouragement.
Just to reiterate, I DO have a regular job that I work at full-time in addition to trading, so I'm not throwing all my eggs into trading.
As far as my FIL's comments affecting my trading plan, I will not allow that to happen. It's true that I want to prove him wrong; succeeding at trading will do that in itself. As one of you mentioned, it is possible that despite succeeding at trading my FIL will still always be skeptical.
An interesting aside is that when he was my age he too took risks until he found his niche and what he was not only good at but loved to do, so it's a little surprising that he doesn't see those circumstances in my situation.
The bottom line is, as many of you have stated, exactly that: the Bottom Line. Producing trading income on a consistent basis and in an amount large enough to provide for my family will be the only barometer of my success or failure.
Cheers,
LL
Just to reiterate, I DO have a regular job that I work at full-time in addition to trading, so I'm not throwing all my eggs into trading.
As far as my FIL's comments affecting my trading plan, I will not allow that to happen. It's true that I want to prove him wrong; succeeding at trading will do that in itself. As one of you mentioned, it is possible that despite succeeding at trading my FIL will still always be skeptical.
An interesting aside is that when he was my age he too took risks until he found his niche and what he was not only good at but loved to do, so it's a little surprising that he doesn't see those circumstances in my situation.
The bottom line is, as many of you have stated, exactly that: the Bottom Line. Producing trading income on a consistent basis and in an amount large enough to provide for my family will be the only barometer of my success or failure.
Cheers,
LL