Great inventions from Africa, Central America , even Asia ???

in honesty, it's impossible to discuss these topics w/o a bunch of eugenic pseudoscience getting thrown into the mix.

IMO, It boils down to:
Why did nomadic people not care to advance civilization if they're just moving around & out competing beasts looking for another meal?
vs
why did agrarian civilizations with all their bounty manage to settle down to think, & push warfare & technology when needing to out compete other people?

and then there are a whole lot of question of what that does to our brains (out competing animals vs out competing humans)

in fairness, I don't care enough to pursue the answers to those questions, though I care when people are not given a fair shake when people reach conclusions to some of these questions.
 
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vanzandt said:
I have no idea what Godwin's Law is nor do I care, although I hear the term bandied about this place quite a bit. My interest in these "school of higher learning" dogma... which in essence is some egghead's speculation at best... ranks right up there with my interest in... fat chicks.
I brought up Hitler, since you said quote: "rhythm is not important". Now I would think the most tyrannical and murderous leader of the 20th Century who had his sights set on conquering the entire fucking world and damn near did.... I would think his opinion on what's important might have a little validity as he saw it as a threat to his power. That's pretty fucking important if you ask me.

And dude... who are are you arguing with here? How many instruments are you proficient at? Did you study classical piano as a kid? How many bands have you ever played in? How many songs have you written? I'm gonna guess zero across the board. I'm sure you'll respond you're a virtuoso. But whatever on that.

Next point. Are you saying Gospel Music has no melody? I mean... wtf? That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

And this... "Most music you hear nowadays has both components."

Well yeah. No shit. And, it may not be to your particular taste... but the songs that are regularly churning out 100M views in a very short period of time on YouTube are all pretty much Rap. And the artists are from the USA, S. America, and Africa. The ones making bank that is. And the songs that make bank... are appealing to the most amount of people, whether you like that sound or not.
"If you remove melodies from music, it gets boring fast."
Take the melody out of rap and know what you have left?
.....Rap.
Imagine that.

So whatever. You have your opinion on things. I have mine. Move on.
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1. So you're being ignorant in not knowing what Godwin's Law is, got it. Somehow you're also proud of your ignorance, go figure.

2. Hitler is not the most tyrannical and murderous leader in the 20th century, not even in the second place. He wanted to control Europe and that was his states goal - Europe for Europeans, Africa for Africans, Asia for Asians. So you've failed in history as well. I'm not surprised.

3. I played instruments, sung in a choir and have some musical education, not that it's actually relevant.

4. Melodies in Gospel music are extremely basic, not comparing to classical music in any sense. You have to be tone deaf not to realize this.

5. As I already stated, what sells is mostly irrelevant. Hollywood churns out superhero movies five a year and they're always top of the charts, no-one will care nor remember these in 20 years time. Art isn't really judged by commercial success, never has been.

6. If you remove all melodies from top selling rap artists, you're left with a guy talking to a microphone. I suggest you actually try removing the music with filters and see if you still think it would sell.
 
d08 said:
1. So you're being ignorant in not knowing what Godwin's Law is, got it. Somehow you're also proud of your ignorance, go figure.

2. Hitler is not the most tyrannical and murderous leader in the 20th century, not even in the second place. He wanted to control Europe and that was his states goal - Europe for Europeans, Africa for Africans, Asia for Asians. So you've failed in history as well. I'm not surprised.

3. I played instruments, sung in a choir and have some musical education, not that it's actually relevant.

4. Melodies in Gospel music are extremely basic, not comparing to classical music in any sense. You have to be tone deaf not to realize this.

5. As I already stated, what sells is mostly irrelevant. Hollywood churns out superhero movies five a year and they're always top of the charts, no-one will care nor remember these in 20 years time. Art isn't really judged by commercial success, never has been.

6. If you remove all melodies from top selling rap artists, you're left with a guy talking to a microphone. I suggest you actually try removing the music with filters and see if you still think it would sell.
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Wouldn't you say you have a bit of bias on that topic?
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...ng-of-holocaust-film-the-painted-bird.335687/
 
It is rather amazing at what the west has accomplished. Does africa have a high speed rail system or decent infrastructure? Is guatemala known for their great medical treatments?
Im stil investigating these matters and will keep all of you guys posted.
 
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d08 said:
1. So you're being ignorant in not knowing what Godwin's Law is, got it. Somehow you're also proud of your ignorance, go figure.

2. Hitler is not the most tyrannical and murderous leader in the 20th century, not even in the second place. He wanted to control Europe and that was his states goal - Europe for Europeans, Africa for Africans, Asia for Asians. So you've failed in history as well. I'm not surprised.

3. I played instruments, sung in a choir and have some musical education, not that it's actually relevant.

4. Melodies in Gospel music are extremely basic, not comparing to classical music in any sense. You have to be tone deaf not to realize this.

5. As I already stated, what sells is mostly irrelevant. Hollywood churns out superhero movies five a year and they're always top of the charts, no-one will care nor remember these in 20 years time. Art isn't really judged by commercial success, never has been.

6. If you remove all melodies from top selling rap artists, you're left with a guy talking to a microphone. I suggest you actually try removing the music with filters and see if you still think it would sell.
More...
Ok, I said I was done, but I can't resist. I gotta unfuck your knowledge of music here.

You said "African music is rhythm based where as European music is melody based." Ok... all songs have melody. Melody is the combination of rhythm and pitch.

Without rhythm, there would be no song. Classical or otherwise. Rhythm is "time". The duration of the note. Melody is the result of pitch (notes) + rhythm over time. That's the way it works ok. Just because a song is not written in 4/4 time, or it consists exclusively of 1/4 notes or 1/8 notes...does not mean its void of rhythm. You are using rhythm as an adjective, ... its not... its a noun. Without a time signature, a specific duration of a particular note, and the duration of time between successive notes, there is no melody and there is no song. Period. Case closed on that.

And besides, why are we even discussing this. The musical revolution that occurred in the 1950's was rock and roll and it forever changed the musical landscape. Rock and roll evolved from the Blues and Gospel. That came from our slaves, and they brought it from Africa. That was my point, and it is correct.

As to your point #5 above... pretty sure history will judge the Stones, Elvis, Led Zepplin, Snoop, Michael, Cash, Prince as "true" artists 100 years from now. I doubt they'll bring up $'s made.
 
d08 said:
Best to stick to facts. So Josif Stalin doesn't count for what reason? The 6 million number for Jews has been talked about even before Hitler did what he did. It's more of a religious topic for them and not a factual one.
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I'm not disputing Stalin's or Mao's kill number, rather the downplaying notion of "Europe for Europeans" while cleansing whole populations of them for being a certain sect.
 
vanzandt said:
Ok, I said I was done, but I can't resist. I gotta unfuck your knowledge of music here.

You said "African music is rhythm based where as European music is melody based." Ok... all songs have melody. Melody is the combination of rhythm and pitch.

Without rhythm, there would be no song. Classical or otherwise. Rhythm is "time". The duration of the note. Melody is the result of pitch (notes) + rhythm over time. That's the way it works ok. Just because a song is not written in 4/4 time, or it consists exclusively of 1/4 notes or 1/8 notes...does not mean its void of rhythm. You are using rhythm as an adjective, ... its not... its a noun. Without a time signature, a specific duration of a particular note, and the duration of time between successive notes, there is no melody and there is no song. Period. Case closed on that.

And besides, why are we even discussing this. The musical revolution that occurred in the 1950's was rock and roll and it forever changed the musical landscape. Rock and roll evolved from the Blues and Gospel. That came from our slaves, and they brought it from Africa. That was my point, and it is correct.

As to your point #5 above... pretty sure history will judge the Stones, Elvis, Led Zepplin, Snoop, Michael, Cash, Prince as "true" artists 100 years from now. I doubt they'll bring up $'s made.
More...

No. All songs do not have melody. There's plenty of music entirely focused on drums and beats.

Yes, European music in medieval times paid no attention to rhythm. It means rhythm was constant or even inconsistent, it was about the melody being played.

You have a very America-biased view of music which is understandable, doubt you'd have any clue of the same era European artists around. And like I said, rhythm based music has come from Africa, I never disputed this.
History of music started way before 1900s and that's why you're limited in your views.
 
d08 said:
No. All songs do not have melody. There's plenty of music entirely focused on drums and beats.

.
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Ok.... and what lies between each of those beats that makes that song unique? TIME. Rhythm. Duh!!!

OMG... an American thing(?).... dude, time is fundamental to all music. Are you that fucking dense?

There's only song in the entire world that doesn't have rhythm, it comes from that little thing that sits atop of my baby-grand. Mr. Metronome. And his entire purpose in life is to roll out the red carpet for the rhythm. Stick with Dr Godwin and Holocaust denials ok... leave music theory to those that know a little bit about it.

Why the f do you live in Manila anyway? I always wondered that.
 
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