Good example of why unions are stupid as all hell

[mrbill]

Quote from Hoofhearted:

That's a lot to think about Bill. I'm sure Lucrum or someone will have an immediate answer for you.

I can't wait for the mono-syllabic one liner. Something of value I'm sure.

 

[mrbill]

Quote from Clubber Lang:

There was a time when unions were necessary to stop what was essentially slave labor.

However, the pendulum has swung so far to the other side over the last 50 years.

Union greed was a lot easier to stomach (or ignore) while housing and stocks were going straight up for decades.

Eventually the legacy costs overwhelm the company (or in the U.S.'s case, the entire system).

I'm in agreement. I think we need some sort of negotiation rights, but not necessarily full on unions.

 

[CaptainObvious]

Quote from mrbill:

Is there any chance that we can approach this logically? Has anyone seen, or checked to see if the Income Statements show that by allowing the Union workers they're agreed upon wages that the Company would go bankrupt? Perhaps just make less money? Other outcome, if any?

If anyone here negotiated a contract for $50,000 per year, and the company had bad management, or spent money foolishly, or the economy was impacted, and Management asked you to cut back to $35,000, as an example, would you just say OK?

Is this just a poorly played game of chess or poker?

FWIW, I am not a fan of Unions. None of my business has any Union employees, but I feel that I pay my people well.

My feeling is that in many ways they have become what they were formed for initially, bad for overall business. When the Magnates of yore, Rockefeller, Carnegie, and the like were forcing 12 hour days and 6 day work weeks, they were the enemy of the middle class. When Henry Ford paid double wages, started a 40 hour, 5 day work week, he thrived, as did the middle class.

Now, we are faced with decisions on where to cut costs, nothing more, nothing less.

Comments? Ideas? Thoughts?

Poorly managed company run by greedy exec's+poorly managed union run by greedy union exec's=death of company. How it happens is simple. All the money that should be going into upgrades and improvements goes into the pockets of these people, including the work force. Works great for awhile, but after some time passes the company is so inefficient, and upgrade costs are so steep, there's no way to catch up regardless of how many concessions anyone makes. There is also a culture in these places in which everybody thinks the other guy should do more. They never look at their own lazy asses. I've seen this in one steel mill after another for 30 years running. There are plenty of other industries in the very same boat.

 

[nutmeg]

Quote from mrbill:


Comments? Ideas? Thoughts?

The way I understand this the hedge funds owned plenty of previous company debt, perhaps they wanted to cash out or at least some resemblance of a return.

How much money do you want to keep throwing into a black hole?

 

[mrbill]

Quote from CaptainObvious:

Poorly managed company run by greedy exec's+poorly managed union run by greedy union exec's=death of company. How it happens is simple. All the money that should be going into upgrades and improvements goes into the pockets of these people, including the work force. Works great for awhile, but after some time passes the company is so inefficient, and upgrade costs are so steep, there's no way to catch up regardless of how many concessions anyone makes. There is also a culture in these places in which everybody thinks the other guy should do more. They never look at their own lazy asses. I've seen this in one steel mill after another for 30 years running. There are plenty of other industries in the very same boat.

Plenty of blame to go around. Perhaps employee ownership might work. I'm addressing that issue with one of my companies. Who knows, it's worked for some in the past.

 

[maxpi]

The type of thinking that enables unions to bankrupt their employers is the same kind that dominates the Democrats.. they are doing the same thing at every level of government.

 

[mrbill]

Quote from nutmeg:

The way I understand this the hedge funds owned plenty of previous company debt, perhaps they wanted to cash out or at least some resemblance of a return.

How much money do you want to keep throwing into a black hole?

Yes, or when do you just take the money and run?

 

[CaptainObvious]

Quote from mrbill:

Plenty of blame to go around. Perhaps employee ownership might work. I'm addressing that issue with one of my companies. Who knows, it's worked for some in the past.

What I've seen work is incentivised, merit pay type structures. The dead beats leave this type of organization rather quickly and you're left with good hard workers. One caveat. These workers must be rewarded. You must actually provide clear path of advancement opportunites for them. If it's only lip service the good help will take their skills down the road. It should also go without saying that you must stay on the cutting edge of whatever technology is pertinent to your business.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Quote from RedDuke:

Once again, I am not disputing that it is their fault. I just to not see anything remotely funny or something to be gloating about. Each company has employees outside of union as well, usually a decent percentage. All these people also lost their jobs.

Are you happy about this as well?

I am not gloating. I am pleased that a stupid group of people brought about their downfall. Check your Russian to English dictionary. Saying "Well, they deserved that" is the same thing as saying "that is their fault" (which you said). Go argue semantics with someone else. It's a waste of my time.

As for those others who "lost their job", please check into what happens when a company liquidates and is sold to another in the CPG industry. Many of those office folks will keep their job and be absorbed into another CPG company. Some, may not. That is life.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Quote from Hoofhearted:

I agree this is a very sad outcome for many. I just talked with a very close friend from Indianapolis and he will be out of a job.

He did not support the strike. He would have never preferred to join any union, but as times are difficult, he felt he had little choice, and putting food on the table for his family was his ultimate priority.

Someone will likely buy the company and its brand, and yes they will hire labor who will do more for less. I pray that my friend will be included in the new workforce, but in the meantime, it will likely be a sad Christmas for his children.

Perhaps the silver lining will be that other unions and future companies can learn from the mistakes that are being made right now- but history hasn't proven itself to be a good teacher- at least not in this country.

I hope your friend voted for government officials that support right to work legislation. Otherwise, he voted for people that support this type of thing happening. It also makes him a hypocrite. "I don't support the strike at MY company because my job is affected. But I support other unions elsewhere." Horseshit. I'll bet he voted union friendly politicians in and now looks around dumbfounded when he reaps what he sowed. If not, then he got caught up in stupidity and was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and that IS unfortunate. Which is he?

Your friend will likely be just fine, as the company buying the brands will need infrastructure to run it.