You are stating this as a bonus to your system, but this merely states the obvious: what person of faith wants something that is man-made? What you are really doing is throwing out all religions w/o an explanation and so I ask again, "Why do you assume each and every religion is false? Upon what do you base this idea - reasons similar to axeman?"
god told me to post this here
- Thread starter Gordon Gekko
- Start date
You are stating this as a bonus to your system, but this merely states the obvious: what person of faith wants something that is man-made? What you are really doing is throwing out all religions w/o an explanation and so I ask again, "Why do you assume each and every religion is false? Upon what do you base this idea - reasons similar to axeman?"
Yes, but why do you assume that "faith in simple existence of a supreme but unknowable God" is the correct pathway to God? Your answer has been to axe from what I can figure is "it's not intellectual" and from what I can tell you do not believe in the supernatural/spiritual component of life.
So I think some of us are wondering: what is the basis of your belief system?
I don't assume any religion is necessarily false.
In the same way what is learned in 1st grade may conflict with what is learned in 6th grade, or high school, that doesn't mean they are false independently, but false in comparison to each other.
In the beginning, we learn to count on our toes. As we develop, we let that go and use our mind, or calculators. Some religions teach one thing to those who need to learn it, other religions teach more elevated principles to people who are advanced enough to understand those higher principles.
However, that doesn't make any of the teachings false, just relative to the situation of the students.
From my perspective however, as long as there is an opportunity to have a direct relationship, a heart to heart relation with God the supreme....the need for man made religions or opinions are lacking in value to me.
Apart from loving God, most of the other commandments of religions have to do with a golden rule approach to living life.
AXE:"You haven't given us any explanation why faith fails so
completely in so many ways with so many contradictory outcomes."
"Right tool, right job, right application=success
Wrong tool, wrong job, wrong application=failure."
Nice dodge. Again.
Axe:You haven't given us any proof of a single monotheistic god.
"Show me something greater than the greatest."
You have the burden of proof.
AXE:You haven't given us any proof of any god.
"Proof of God is beyond material intellect and senses."
I think THAT just about says it all.
God isn't material.... god is beyond the intellect.... god is beyond the senses.
And YET.... you still believe. Simply amazing.
peace
axeman
completely in so many ways with so many contradictory outcomes."
"Right tool, right job, right application=success
Wrong tool, wrong job, wrong application=failure."
Nice dodge. Again.
Axe:You haven't given us any proof of a single monotheistic god.
"Show me something greater than the greatest."
You have the burden of proof.
AXE:You haven't given us any proof of any god.
"Proof of God is beyond material intellect and senses."
I think THAT just about says it all.
God isn't material.... god is beyond the intellect.... god is beyond the senses.
And YET.... you still believe. Simply amazing.
peace
axeman
What is "supernatural" and/or spiritual versus God the supreme?
Unknowable through material means, yes. However, not unknowable through the practice of faith.
If God the supreme is defined as supernatural and spiritual, then anything less than that is not supernatural and/or spiritual.
Do I think there could be unicorns, ghosts, extra terrestrials, celestial dimensions, gods, devils, etc.?
Sure, but they would still be under the category of material, so they have no value to me, if my goal is supreme knowledge, supreme love, supreme bliss, etc.
Why focus on a limited return when an unlimited return is available for one's faith?
If people define a unicorn as unlimited, having the same qualities as God the supreme, then the unicorn is God the supreme.
I don't get hung up with names or forms, but what really matters is the essence, and essential qualities of the goal of my faith.
If the goal is perfect love, unlimited happiness, eternal life, supreme intelligence....then the source would have to be Perfectly Loving, Unlimited, Eternal, and Supremely Intelligent.
Perfectly Loving, Unlimited, Eternal, and Supremely Intelligent is my definition of God....and those qualities are the object and personality of my practice of faith.
Quote from axeman:
AXE:"You haven't given us any explanation why faith fails so
completely in so many ways with so many contradictory outcomes."
"Right tool, right job, right application=success
Wrong tool, wrong job, wrong application=failure."
Nice dodge. Again.
Axe:You haven't given us any proof of a single monotheistic god.
"Show me something greater than the greatest."
You have the burden of proof.
AXE:You haven't given us any proof of any god.
"Proof of God is beyond material intellect and senses."
I think THAT just about says it all.
God isn't material.... god is beyond the intellect.... god is beyond the senses.
And YET.... you still believe. Simply amazing.
peace
axeman
Time came for you when your limited intellect began to question your faith, and placed itself above supreme God, placed itself in a position of supreme knowledge and authority about what the nature of reality is. You chose a limited intellect and limited senses above supreme God.
Simply amazing.
Let me ask it another way: why would God care only if you simply believed that He existed? Why would God look down and say, "Wow, that person figured out I really existed. That's all I care about. You cracked the big mystery. Now you're worthy!"
I'm not trying to be glib - I just don't understand where you're coming from.
"Time came for you when your limited intellect began to question your faith, and placed itself above supreme God,"
Assumes a supreme god.
" placed itself in a position of supreme knowledge and authority about what the nature of reality is. You chose a limited intellect and limited senses above supreme God."
Assumes a supreme god.
Round and round you go.
We get it... you just BELIEVE for no reason.
No need to explain any further.
ART: "Proof of God is beyond material intellect and senses."
This sums it up nicely. I suppose you didnt use your senses
or intellect to faith your god.
In other words... you turned off your brain... turned off your
material senses and just "felt" him internally.
Whatever.
peace
axeman
Assumes a supreme god.
" placed itself in a position of supreme knowledge and authority about what the nature of reality is. You chose a limited intellect and limited senses above supreme God."
Assumes a supreme god.
Round and round you go.
We get it... you just BELIEVE for no reason.
No need to explain any further.
ART: "Proof of God is beyond material intellect and senses."
This sums it up nicely. I suppose you didnt use your senses
or intellect to faith your god.
In other words... you turned off your brain... turned off your
material senses and just "felt" him internally.
Whatever.
peace
axeman
You are defining faith as simply believing in the existence of something, I have a different definition.
Someone could believe in the existence of God, but not look to God for love, happiness, joy, intelligence, etc.
Someone could believe that God exists, but still look to the material world for knowledge, happiness, etc. There is a difference between intellectual faith, and emotional faith.
My definition of faith, as it relates to God, is that someone believes God to be the source of infinite joy, intelligence, wisdom, truth, etc. On that basis they begin to develop emotional faith.
If someone really believed that God is the only truth, the only real lasting happiness, they would naturally seek that out, as it is human nature to want more and more and more, to want perfection. God by definition is perfection.
Believing that God is the source of perfection, leads to seeking out to find God, and finding God is not through the material senses and intellect, but rather though a loving relationship. A child may not understand his mother, but a child can love his mother. Love and trust are the unifying powers.
If you really believed that God was your true happiness, you would not look to the world and its limited and temporal joys as the source of happiness....you would look to God. If you really believed that God exists, you would look harder and harder to find God.
if you really believed that you truly belonged to God, and not to this world, you would no longer be emotionally attached to the outcomes in this world in the same way. You would live for God and the love He can give, not the fleeting pleasures and relative truths of this world.
So faith becomes a practice of deepening understanding of man's true relationship to what is real and what is true. God is real and true, because God is everlasting...where this world is constantly changing, relative and temporary.
God wants to give his children the best gift, but when they are looking to the world instead of Him, they are not in a position to receive it.
You assumed the intellect and senses were the right tool to evaluate absolute reality....and you used the intellect to form this assumption. You then used the tool of logic to prove itself. Circular.
Round and round the relativistic wheel you go.
Whatever.