Quote from Weeble:
horse, free yourself. admit it, YOU HAVE BEEN BRAINWASHED BY RELIGION. IT IS A FACT. of course you aren't going to like it when i trash your religion. of course you're not going to like it when i tell you your core beliefs are fake fairy tales. i also don't care how large of a majority disagrees with me. i'd probably be annoyed by me, too, if i was told the explanation for my existence (that i've been told my whole life) was a lie.
so because i trash religion, i'm losing my mind? going insane? stressed/depressed?! hahaha go ahead and claim i'm sinking to new lows/need mental help/whatever. reality supports every belief i have. it's really you religious people that have a REAL mental problem. you need to somehow UNBRAINWASH yourselves. THAT IS THE TRUTH!!!
note: smart people can be brainwashed. i do not think people are necessarily stupid if they're religious. if einstein was religious because his parents made him go to church since age 1, i'd tell him he's brainwashed, too.
DARKHORSE, WOULD YOU BELIEVE YOUR CURRENT RELIGION IF YOU WERE BORN IN IRAQ?!?! GET REAL!!! YOU KNOW YOU WOULDN'T!!!!!! you believe what you believe BECAUSE YOU WERE TOLD TO BELIEVE IT SINCE THE DAY YOU WERE BORN!!!!!!
RELIGION = BRAINWASHING BOGUS CRAP INTO THE MIND!!!!!
I don't question your well being because you are 'trashing religion'- I question it because you are consistently throwing out challenges to no one in particular and seem to have a compulsive shouting problem.
You have been oddly fixated on a single point for many months now, and have been shouting the same few tired lines over and over; the subject matter of the point is irrelevant to the fact that you are fixated.
No one else on this board that I can see has continuously been shouting the same argument into the wind, thread after tired thread, without having anything substantial or beneficial come of it. There are plenty of controversial subjects and plenty of strong opinions around here, yet you are apparently one of the only ones to keep shouting, over and over, tirelessly trying to pick a new fight.
As for your repeated points, I'm surprised you have the nerve (or the lack of common sense) to bring them up again when they were so thoroughly addressed a long time ago (almost a year ago now in fact, if I'm not mistaken).
Your entire argument seems to consist of three repetitions:
1) religious people are "brainwashed"
2) religious people believe what they are told since birth
3) religion conflicts with science and thus must be wrong
All of these have been adressed ten times over in the threads where there was actually a back and forth discussion occurring.
Point one is not an argument, it's a meaningless statement. It's not an argument or even a logical position, it's simply an insult. Saying "YOU ARE WRONG YOU ARE BRAINWASHED" is tantamount to saying nothing at all. All it does is demonstrate that you aren't skilled enough to tell the difference between logical debate and insult, or alternatively that you don't care or don't have anything logical to say.
Point two is patently illogical from the start, and if you thought about it for more than five seconds you would not keep repeating it. My father does not hold the same beliefs that I do, nor does my mother. I was not "taught" anything early on in regards to metaphysics, and I did not make any firm conclusions about God or purpose or existence before 20 years old.
But forget my own example; your point #2 is completely irrelevant because there are countless numbers of people who switch positions midstream. There are atheists who become christians at 30 years old. There are christians who become athiests at 30 years old. There are agnostics who become hindus, hindus who become catholics, catholics who become moonies... you name the combination, there is someone out there who has changed position midstream. The key point here is that it doesn't have to matter at all what you are told from birth. Just because many are given their path by their parents, it does not mean that all are given their path by their parents, and thus giving a blanket generalization of indoctrination across the board is patently stupid.
Last but not least, if you continue to shout point #2 then you fall into your own trap. You have said that your father is a scientist, which dovetails nicely into your worship of science. If you declare everyone who disagrees with you to be full of shit because they just believe what they are being told, then you have to put yourself in the same camp. Again I'm surprised that you aren't intelligent enough to see this glaring contradiction and spare yourself some embarrassment.
Point three is also more evidence of ignorance, and has been addressed ten times over by threads you have participated in in the past. Questions of God are not defined or answered by science because science is limited by empiricism and deals with a closed system. You don't have to believe in God to recognize the limitations of science. You just have to be logical. Read Zen & The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance or Lila by Robert Pirsig. Pirsig doesn't believe in God, and his answers are not necessarily better than anyone else's, but his questions- i.e. his analysis of the limitations inherent in a subject/object approach to metaphysics- are pretty hard to argue with. So much of life and reality is outside the realm of empiricism that it's hard to believe anyone could assume otherwise. You can't even assign a value to empiricism without moving outside of empiricism.
And furthermore, science cannibalizes itself at the edge. All the logic and rigidity just fades away, leaving us with mystery again. Mathematics is a self-defining system; Riemannian or Lobachevskian geometry have just as much validity as Euclidian. We only choose to accept the axiom that parallel lines can never intercept as a matter of convenience. The truth is they could, if we chose to use an alternate base system that is just as internally coherent. Bertrand Russels empty set paradox shows further contradiction at the heart of mathematics. In otherwords, the concrete bed of scientific logic turns to quicksand if you look at it hard enough. Science is no place for the atheist to plant his flag, because in addition to being blind as Einstein noted, it is just as susceptible to mystery and seeming contradiction as anything else.
So if you are going to fight, fight like a man. Put away your meaningless insults. "You are brainwashed" is about as intelligent as "YoU aRe A pOoPyHed". Drop the crap about indoctrination, it's embarrassing to see you leaning on such a weak crutch. And recognize that science will not save you. Can God be debated? Most certainly. But it's a philosophical debate, not a scientific one, and continued references to and reliance on your limited knowledge only highlights the limitations of your knowledge.
And for crying out loud, please stop shouting. You really do sound like a drunk.
