God and Science

kut2k2 · Dec 10, 2009

Quote from jficquette:

Except the odds are about 10 to a few trillions powers against it.

Source?

OPTIONAL777 · Dec 10, 2009

"When has that ever been the case?"

You are kidding, right?

You can't be serious to think scientific consensus throughout history has going through correction after correction...

Quote from kut2k2:

When has that ever been the case? Be specific.

Your strawmen are very fragile.

Index piker · Dec 10, 2009

Quote from kut2k2:

I'm not speaking for vhehn here but many physicists believe physics is close to completion. If a unifying theory (the Theory of Everything) can be found that combines both quantum mechanics and general relativity, then we will know basically everything about the universe except "details". Very important details to be sure remain to be discovered but knowing the fundamental basics of the physical world would be awesome.

:eek:
Sounds like this ignorant fool:

In 1899 Charles H. Duell, the Commissioner at U.S. Office of Patents, was quoted as saying, âeverything that can be invented has been invented.â

kut2k2 · Dec 10, 2009

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

Quote from kut2k2:

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

Scientific consensus has a history of being wrong when scientific consensus is that they have it all figured out...

More...

When has that ever been the case?

Be specific.

Your strawmen are very fragile.

More...

"When has that ever been the case?"

You are kidding, right?

You can't be serious to think scientific consensus throughout history has going through correction after correction...

In other words, you can't give a specific case. Yeah I didn't think so.

OPTIONAL777 · Dec 10, 2009

Oh well, since you are a dummy, here is a primer on the history of cosmology for dummies...

http://www.gap-system.org/~history/HistTopics/Cosmology.html

...like modern dummies they also thought they had it figured out.

"Awesome, totally awesome...alright Hamilton!"

Quote from kut2k2:

When has that ever been the case?

Be specific.

Your strawmen are very fragile.

"When has that ever been the case?"

You are kidding, right?

You can't be serious to think scientific consensus throughout history has going through correction after correction... [/QUOTE]In other words, you can't give a specific case. Yeah I didn't think so. [/QUOTE]

jem · Dec 10, 2009

Quote from kut2k2:

Jem, I'm curious: are you a Deist? The reason I ask is that some theists -- not accusing you of being one -- like to make the First Cause argument for God, which is pretty much where Deism begins and ends, but they also disingenuously pretend that First Cause provides "evidence" as well for the Grand Meddler of the traditional monotheisms.

First Cause has plausibility; everything we see on earth has a beginning. All people come from mothers, all chickens come from eggs, all plants come from seeds. It was not illogical to suppose the earth had a beginning and later to suppose the entire universe had a beginning when it was discovered that the earth was not the center of the universe.

But the First Cause of (most) theisms -- God -- is not the same as the (apparent) First Cause of science -- the Big Bang. Science does not assume the Big Bang had Intelligence and Purpose, which theisms confer on God, whether or not He (and how was masculinity established?) is also the Grand Meddler of post-creation theism.

Furthermore, as stu pointed out, God the Creator still gets slashed by Occam's Razor:

<s>GOD CREATED</s> THE UNIVERSE
<s>GOD</s> JUST EXISTS

No - I am somewhere between a Protestant and a Catholic. I figure if I am going to believe then I should believe what the bible says Jesus said.

So I go to communion believing and acting what Jesus taught in John 6:50 and on.

However, I choose to believe, I in no way expect others to believe absent my presenting them proof. I do not currently have proof that Jesus is God or that the God of the Abraham Isaac and Moses is the Creator. I have faith not proof and unlike many of the atheists here I know and understand the difference.

----

But, I do think there is a good legitimate scientific argument that there may be a creator. We do not have proof -- but the AP argument and arguments in Biology and other fields are starting to support the idea of a Creator more and more.

I find it funny that et Atheists refuse to read the science.

For more about the anthropic principle I can refer you to Nobel prize winners and founders of string theory.

Again - I am not not saying their statements are proof but they are saying that there is evidence to say the universe appears designed.

RangeBar · Dec 10, 2009

Quote from jem:
However, I choose to believe, I in no way expect others to believe absent my presenting them proof. I do not currently have proof that Jesus is God or that the God of the Abraham Isaac and Moses is the Creator. I have faith not proof and unlike many of the atheists here I know and understand the difference.

----

But, I do think there is a good legitimate scientific argument that there may be a creator. We do not have proof -- but the AP argument and arguments in Biology and other fields are starting to support the idea of a Creator more and more.

I find it funny that et Atheists refuse to read the science.

For more about the anthropic principle I can refer you to Nobel prize winners and founders of string theory.

Again - I am not not saying their statements are proof but they are saying that there is evidence to say the universe appears designed. [/B]

We, (atheist), do not understand FAITH. That is just another word for training/indoctination, superstition and an catch-all for stuff you can't explain logically.

I know of no 'arguments' being made in scientific circles that support the idea of a 'Creator': that is not the purpose of science. Just because a "scientist" wanders into the world of 'religion' does not make it a 'scientific explanation'.

There is absolutely nothing in the universe and certainly not on Earth that REQUIRES a Creator to explain. In fact, any objective analysis of the history of the universe shows that there is NO PLAN at all. For example, on Earth, why would life develop and then get almost completely wiped out 5 times? Was the "Creator" simply experimenting until He/She/It 'got it right? Why have a collision between Earth and another planet to create the moon: why not 'just create them'? The answer is simple: THERE IS NO PLAN and there is NO PLANNER.

In more recent terms, why 'Flood' the Earth and kill all people and then realize a mistake had been made and promise not to "do it again"? For that matter. why create an imperfect being (humans) and then punish them for being 'imperfect'. Complete silliness.

The list could go on & on but, I understand, FAITH solves everything because it does not require . . or allow.. LOGIC.

OPTIONAL777 · Dec 10, 2009

" For example, on Earth, why would life develop and then get almost completely wiped out 5 times? Was the "Creator" simply experimenting until He/She/It 'got it right? Why have a collision between Earth and another planet to create the moon: why not 'just create them'? The answer is simple: THERE IS NO PLAN and there is NO PLANNER."

Whoooooops, your faith is showing...

As a child did you repeatedly ask your parents "why? why? why?"

What makes you think you could understand the answer of a creator of the Universe?

Too funny...

Quote from RangeBar:

We, (atheist), do not understand FAITH. That is just another word for training/indoctination, superstition and an catch-all for stuff you can't explain logically.

I know of no 'arguments' being made in scientific circles that support the idea of a 'Creator': that is not the purpose of science. Just because a "scientist" wanders into the world of 'religion' does not make it a 'scientific explanation'.

There is absolutely nothing in the universe and certainly not on Earth that REQUIRES a Creator to explain. In fact, any objective analysis of the history of the universe shows that there is NO PLAN at all. For example, on Earth, why would life develop and then get almost completely wiped out 5 times? Was the "Creator" simply experimenting until He/She/It 'got it right? Why have a collision between Earth and another planet to create the moon: why not 'just create them'? The answer is simple: THERE IS NO PLAN and there is NO PLANNER.

In more recent terms, why 'Flood' the Earth and kill all people and then realize a mistake had been made and promise not to "do it again"? For that matter. why create an imperfect being (humans) and then punish them for being 'imperfect'. Complete silliness.

The list could go on & on but, I understand, FAITH solves everything because it does not require . . or allow.. LOGIC.

RangeBar · Dec 10, 2009

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

" For example, on Earth, why would life develop and then get almost completely wiped out 5 times? Was the "Creator" simply experimenting until He/She/It 'got it right? Why have a collision between Earth and another planet to create the moon: why not 'just create them'? The answer is simple: THERE IS NO PLAN and there is NO PLANNER."

Whoooooops, your faith is showing...

As a child did you repeatedly ask your parents "why? why? why?"

What makes you think you could understand the answer of a creator of the Universe?

Too funny...

I have no "faith"...in anything. I demand a logical explanation based on evidence. I understand that this 'logical explanation' is based on evidence KNOWN AT THE CURRENT TIME and I am perfectly willingly to CHANGE MY UNDERSTANDING if/when new evidence is submitted.

And 'Yes': as a child I did ask why, why, why: I continue to do this today and I will do it tomorrow.

I don't 'think' I can understand the Creator of the universe because there is no 'Creator' of the universe. And there is no plan. And 'everything does NOT happen for a reason'. And 'what goes around does not come around'. And the 'bad people' are not going to be punished for their actions and the 'good' people are not going to be rewarded. People in your life that have died are not 'watching' you now. There is no Creator keeping score of whether you are naughty or nice. (However, I suggest that you be GOOD for goodness sake as your transgressions will haunt you if you have a conscious.)

So SMILE . . . there is no hell.

OPTIONAL777 · Dec 10, 2009

"I have no "faith"...in anything."

...of course you don't...

Quote from RangeBar:

I have no "faith"...in anything. I demand a logical explanation based on evidence. I understand that this 'logical explanation' is based on evidence KNOWN AT THE CURRENT TIME and I am perfectly willingly to CHANGE MY UNDERSTANDING if/when new evidence is submitted.

And 'Yes': as a child I did ask why, why, why: I continue to do this today and I will do it tomorrow.

I don't 'think' I can understand the Creator of the universe because there is no 'Creator' of the universe. And there is no plan. And 'everything does NOT happen for a reason'. And 'what goes around does not come around'. And the 'bad people' are not going to be punished for their actions and the 'good' people are not going to be rewarded. People in your life that have died are not 'watching' you now. There is no Creator keeping score of whether you are naughty or nice. (However, I suggest that you be GOOD for goodness sake as your transgressions will haunt you if you have a conscious.)

So SMILE . . . there is no hell.