Yup. There absolutely is a positive feedback loop. Both with temp/CO2 and with temps and open ice-free water. We hope the methane calthrates on the sea floor don't also get involved also. If that happens the climate and earth and the people on it are in for some very rough times indeed.
Global warming LOL (part 3) -Scientist admit they were wrong
- Thread starter John_Wensink
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Yup. There absolutely is a positive feedback loop. Both with temp/CO2 and with temps and open ice-free water. We hope the methane calthrates on the sea floor don't also get involved also. If that happens the climate and earth and the people on it are in for some very rough times indeed.
At his point, however, I think Salby is correct. I will change my view when I see convincing evidence to the contrary. And yes, it should be possible for CO2 increase to lead temperature, as well as lag -- assuming Salby is correct-- depending on the origin of the CO2. (I am not absolutely certain. This is a complex multivariate problem.)
Let's wait and see how this plays out.
Let's wait and see how this plays out.
actually the odd thing here for you ... is that in this area of co2 and warming you use your strong analytical abilities to separate out fact from fiction and then you let us know your opinion.
So all of sudden you find yourself on my team... because that is what I do all the time. I find facts, then I argue what the experts say when linking to those facts... then I argue my opinion.
If you started all you arguments from facts... instead of your spin... you would find yourself on our team more often, maybe even all the time.
lets look at my big arguments here.
1. its a fact... that science has no complete pathway from non life to life.
2. its a fact that many top scientists state the constants of our universe appear designed and that we have no proof of other universes.
3. its a fact that scientists say there is know statistically discernable warming in the air temp of the earth the last 16 years.
4. its a fact scientists who study the ice core say that historically temps lead CO2 not the other way.
5. Its a fact that after mellon, kennedy, reagan and bush tax cuts... revenues went up. Its even a fact that after the Bush tax cuts... the 1% paid more.
6. and our argument... its a fact the IRS admitted it targeted conservatives for scrutiny. there is no doubt about it.
your red herring about the fact they may have deserved the scrutiny was just that... a red herring. They still targeted conservative groups and that is wrong under our constitution and our laws.
It is my opinion they should therefore be shutdown.
So all of sudden you find yourself on my team... because that is what I do all the time. I find facts, then I argue what the experts say when linking to those facts... then I argue my opinion.
If you started all you arguments from facts... instead of your spin... you would find yourself on our team more often, maybe even all the time.
lets look at my big arguments here.
1. its a fact... that science has no complete pathway from non life to life.
2. its a fact that many top scientists state the constants of our universe appear designed and that we have no proof of other universes.
3. its a fact that scientists say there is know statistically discernable warming in the air temp of the earth the last 16 years.
4. its a fact scientists who study the ice core say that historically temps lead CO2 not the other way.
5. Its a fact that after mellon, kennedy, reagan and bush tax cuts... revenues went up. Its even a fact that after the Bush tax cuts... the 1% paid more.
6. and our argument... its a fact the IRS admitted it targeted conservatives for scrutiny. there is no doubt about it.
your red herring about the fact they may have deserved the scrutiny was just that... a red herring. They still targeted conservative groups and that is wrong under our constitution and our laws.
It is my opinion they should therefore be shutdown.
There's no need to wait. Salby is a flake and is wrong. There is ample evidence that CO2 has led temperature in this modern era. The sun did not do it. Isotope analysis and simple summation math of tons of fossil fuels burned shows that the build is due up is due to man. Why you would choose to believe one denier flake over the many other experts is beyond me. Why would you think that suddenly the sun got warmer over the last 50 years when it has done the opposite?
Sometimes there is a reason for the minority opinion to be the minority opinion. It's simply wrong. That's the case here with this flake Salby.
what a fricken joke you are.
trying proving that co2 leads warming in the modern era...
for the last few months (since you learned air temps have not warmed for 16 years) and that therefore your models have failed you and a few of your agw nutter scientists have said oh wait the oceans have been warming.. they have been hiding the heat.
So... the oceans have been warming for 100 years... warming has therefore lead the modern rise of co2.
Which makes sense since oceans release co2 and methane and other greenhouse gases as they warm.
trying proving that co2 leads warming in the modern era...
for the last few months (since you learned air temps have not warmed for 16 years) and that therefore your models have failed you and a few of your agw nutter scientists have said oh wait the oceans have been warming.. they have been hiding the heat.
So... the oceans have been warming for 100 years... warming has therefore lead the modern rise of co2.
Which makes sense since oceans release co2 and methane and other greenhouse gases as they warm.
Yes. CO2 has led temps higher over the last hundred years or so. Where have you been? Your ass? LOL
you are again off the agw nutter reservation on this...
even
al gores sponsored nutter website skeptical science admits co2 lags temps in the record... they then to explain it is possible that after the warming starts co2 amplifies.
of course the co2 could amplify in the beginning and then cause cooling or it could just cause cooling the while time... since science now knows CO2 acts as a thermostat according to nasa.
here is a quote... from skeptical science.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-lags-temperature.htm
"In the case of warming, the lag between temperature and CO2 is explained as follows: as ocean temperatures rise, oceans release CO2 into the atmosphere. In turn, this release amplifies the warming trend, leading to yet more CO2 being released. In other words, increasing CO2 levels become both the cause and effect of further warming. This positive feedback is necessary to trigger the shifts between glacials and interglacials as the effect of orbital changes is too weak to cause such variation. Additional positive feedbacks which play an important role in this process include other greenhouse gases, and changes in ice sheet cover and vegetation patterns."
even
al gores sponsored nutter website skeptical science admits co2 lags temps in the record... they then to explain it is possible that after the warming starts co2 amplifies.
of course the co2 could amplify in the beginning and then cause cooling or it could just cause cooling the while time... since science now knows CO2 acts as a thermostat according to nasa.
here is a quote... from skeptical science.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-lags-temperature.htm
"In the case of warming, the lag between temperature and CO2 is explained as follows: as ocean temperatures rise, oceans release CO2 into the atmosphere. In turn, this release amplifies the warming trend, leading to yet more CO2 being released. In other words, increasing CO2 levels become both the cause and effect of further warming. This positive feedback is necessary to trigger the shifts between glacials and interglacials as the effect of orbital changes is too weak to cause such variation. Additional positive feedbacks which play an important role in this process include other greenhouse gases, and changes in ice sheet cover and vegetation patterns."
Quote from futurecurrents:
Yes. CO2 has led temps higher over the last hundred years or so. Where have you been? Your ass? LOL
Quote from futurecurrents:
Yes. CO2 has led temps higher over the last hundred years or so. Where have you been? Your ass? LOL
We should start a Bingo game where each time FC posts the same re-cycled fabricated chart again we all score it on a Bingo card and compete for prizes.
And we should start a drinking game where we all drink whenever you dismiss a perfectly good and true chart because it conflicts with your delusions. We could all get very drunk.