Give up my guns?

[Cuddles]

Yeah... How convenient... Argue until you can't anymore... When that point is reached, just say the other guy is an idiot and that his points are shit and keep your fantasy... That sounds like a real "sea of intelligence"...

If that is the case, you would have no trouble proving me wrong, like I proved you wrong with your shitty arguments.

You sound young; here argue w/yourself:

 

[NeoTrader]

You sound young; here argue w/yourself:
View attachment 186468

Yeah... Very mature of you... That "means a lot" coming from another one that acts like teenager when can't argue anymore and just runs away with the tail between the legs writing personal offenses to try to disguise the fact that you're full of it and can't defend your shitty positions with real arguments.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Show me said evidence.

Just to be clear, you are saying you never saw anything on guns from Fast and Furious coming back across the US border? And the CNN article that I quoted, you are disregarding (that said the same thing)?

Here's an extreme one to your question....death penalty..you think that would curb it?

I think putting a death penalty in place for using a firearm or owning a firearm that was banned would put a significant impact in place, yes. There'd likely be a civil war over it, and it would never have a chance of passing, but sure. In a hypothetical world, it would have a major impact in the banning of guns.

 

[Cuddles]

Just to be clear, you are saying you never saw anything on guns from Fast and Furious coming back across the US border? And the CNN article that I quoted, you are disregarding (that said the same thing)?



I think putting a death penalty in place for using a firearm or owning a firearm that was banned would put a significant impact in place, yes. There'd likely be a civil war over it, and it would never have a chance of passing, but sure. In a hypothetical world, it would have a major impact in the banning of guns.

I don't think I ever heard of any guns coming back across the border from the fast and the furious fiasco. This Terry incident which happened at the hands of Mexican nationals w/their weapons is about the only one I recall. Let's keep in mind you claimed there was substantial gun trafficking coming in from Mexico at some point or another. I don't even see how this case is even evidence of such, even if the guns came back, given that they originated in the states to begin with. I do remember it being pretty brutal for the Mexican authorities and citizenry and Obama catching a ton of crap over it diplomatically.

Your CNN quote only says they were recovered in the US and Mexico; not that they made a round trip. In other words, could've been intercepted pre-Mexico.

I'm glad we agree about tough gun laws working btw.

 

[Tsing Tao]

I don't think I ever heard of any guns coming back across the border from the fast and the furious fiasco. This Terry incident which happened at the hands of Mexican nationals w/their weapons is about the only one I recall. Let's keep in mind you claimed there was substantial gun trafficking coming in from Mexico at some point or another. I don't even see how this case is even evidence of such, even if the guns came back, given that they originated in the states to begin with. I do remember it being pretty brutal for the Mexican authorities and citizenry and Obama catching a ton of crap over it diplomatically.

Your CNN quote only says they were recovered in the US and Mexico; not that they made a round trip. In other words, could've been intercepted pre-Mexico.

I'm glad we agree about tough gun laws working btw.

Come on, if we're being honest with each other we need to acknowledge that guns can go back and forth across an open border, especially when people are moving freely. The CNN article acknowledges that guns were found in the US, if they were originally given to cartels in Mexico, they weren't "intercepted" in the US.

As for tough gun laws working, yes. They will. But martial law would also cut gun violence down to nil as well. But that's not a solution for a free country any more than imposing the death penalty on gun possession.

The goal is to find workable solutions to the problem, not make up tales of fantasy on it.

 

[NeoTrader]

But that's not a solution for a free country...

This is the key point... These fanatics are the "poster-boys" of the "anti-freedom movement"... They are simply control freaks, who don't care about "workable solutions"... They just want security and control over something that, unfortunately, can't be controled: EVIL(for lack of a better word).

These controls have been proven again and again not to work and even in cases like the gun free zones, work completely backwards... And when they don't work, as always, instead of admitting they were wrong and reapealing the mistakes, they obviously demand for more control.

 

[Cuddles]

Come on, if we're being honest with each other we need to acknowledge that guns can go back and forth across an open border, especially when people are moving freely. The CNN article acknowledges that guns were found in the US, if they were originally given to cartels in Mexico, they weren't "intercepted" in the US.

As for tough gun laws working, yes. They will. But martial law would also cut gun violence down to nil as well. But that's not a solution for a free country any more than imposing the death penalty on gun possession.

The goal is to find workable solutions to the problem, not make up tales of fantasy on it.

Yes, guns can go back and forth in an open border, but this thing about them making their way back sounds like fox made up BS quite honestly.

Remember that these guns were being tracked initially, until they started getting lost. I don't see how it would be far fetched to think the ATF would intercept the last batches after knowing things were getting out of hand.

And yes my hypothetical is of course hyperbole purposefully done to make the point that gun regulation can work.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Yes, guns can go back and forth in an open border, but this thing about them making their way back sounds like fox made up BS quite honestly.

Remember that these guns were being tracked initially, until they started getting lost. I don't see how it would be far fetched to think the ATF would intercept the last batches after knowing things were getting out of hand.

Ok, we'll agree to disagree. I think any rational person would admit that guns can pass the border just like people can, if not easier. To think the cartels were tracking the guns once they received them is a tad ridiculous. But you can hold whatever opinion you want.

And yes my hypothetical is of course hyperbole purposefully done to make the point that gun regulation can work.

No one ever said gun regulation cannot work if done in a dictatorship or some sort of martial law. All we've been saying is that banning guns through legislation that would be passed in Congress will never work. Ever. And that hasn't changed.

Like the cancer analogy, you can shoot the patient in the head and that will stop the cancer, too. Doesn't make it a viable solution.

 

[Cuddles]

Ok, we'll agree to disagree. I think any rational person would admit that guns can pass the border just like people can, if not easier. To think the cartels were tracking the guns once they received them is a tad ridiculous. But you can hold whatever opinion you want.



No one ever said gun regulation cannot work if done in a dictatorship or some sort of martial law. All we've been saying is that banning guns through legislation that would be passed in Congress will never work. Ever. And that hasn't changed.

Like the cancer analogy, you can shoot the patient in the head and that will stop the cancer, too. Doesn't make it a viable solution.

I never said the cartels were tracking them. I said the ATF. remember the whole point of letting these guns walk was to find out their final destination and potentially strike the cartels in those locations.

 

[Tsing Tao]

I never said the cartels were tracking them. I said the ATF. remember the whole point of letting these guns walk was to find out their final destination and potentially strike the cartels in those locations.

If the ATF was tracking them then one wouldn't have wound up in on the US side of the border and been used to kill an agent. But I'm done arguing over something where neither of us has the proof or desire to go get it. It's not the subject of this thread and I really don't care.