Germany must be forced out of the Euro Monetary Union.

[sheda]

That's where you are wrong, non-EU immigrants actually COST UK money while EU migrants contribute to the economy.

Skilled immigrants from outside the eu who enter with a visa based on a skill set, doctors, nurses, engineers, CEOs, mechanics etc cost the uk 118 billion?

Anecdotally, all Brits who actually have experience with east EU immigrants tend to rather say positive things about these so-called Polish plumbers, the only ones screaming "ther goin to take our jobs!" are the ones who never had a job in the first place - competition is a bitch. The people going to UK tend to be in their twenties and willing to work, I've never heard of anyone actually going there to take advantage of the NHS or anything like that and the data confirms this.

Worked with them, married them, had enough experience of them:

The report found evidence that during the recession their (Eastern Europeans) unemployment rates have remained significantly below that of British-born workers, often because they were paid considerably less and were seen as good employees willing to work hard.

While competition is a bitch the over supply of labour and undercutting of cost is a very real bitch that has impacted the lives of real people well beyond your imagined never employed screaming man with a grievance, its not about the nationality of the people its about supply and demand in labour markets, many nations protect their citizens with reasonable immigration safe guards in relation to labour, the nature of free movement means that is no longer possible and now we face a situation in which the government is willing to turn away doctors from out side of the eu in place of road sweepers and beggars inside it.

While you paint an entirely rosy picture its far from the case, from romanian crime epidemics (who are 8 times more likely to be imprisoned than brits) to benefit tourism (more than twice as many European Union immigrants are claiming unemployment benefits in Britain than vice versa. Almost 65,000 EU nationals are getting Jobseeker's Allowance (JSA) in the UK compared to around 30,000 Britons claiming unemployment benefits elsewhere in the EU) there are many problems that government after government has refused to address which has created the current climate.

Do you think the balance has been lost when to address the british public's concerns about immigration the only thing the goverment has in its power to do is massively reduce the 20,000 skilled workers with guaranteed jobs who enter per year whilst up to half a million skilled/unskilled/unemployed/criminal and everything inbetween enter each year from within the eu?

 

[volpunter]

I follow your line as reasoning as long as one makes a distinction between wealth earned legally and cronies and criminals. The UK (or shall i say London) is housing more wealthy murderers and corrupt Chinese than all such individuals in all other central European cities combined. I may overstate but you get the drill.

When a nation or union has given up on fundamental values all in the name of mammon then something is apparently wrong. Ironically in these times the old school thinker is ridiculed and "business" always valued higher than moral values. One can name it any way one wants but I am not the only one who feels the UK is going down a very slippery path with its attitude towards China , it's not asking any questions whatsoever when ultra high network individuals are washed upon its shores and when it comes to extorting ever more privileges without responsibilities from the European Union. I prefer a nation or school of thought that still looks at thinks in a more impartial way.

France is supposed to accept illegal immigrants but also to stop them for leaving the country ? uh ??
There seems to have been a legal agreement actually upon the opening of the tunnel that the british border would be set on the French side rather than Dover or wherever in Britain the tunnel ends, I noticed some french politicians bitching about this agreement and talking about revisiting it but I suspect it's not going to happen anytime soon.
If you ask me EU should stop all rescue missions in the Mediterranee - while changing its labour, tax and banking regulations so the rich Syrians and other successful folks from troubled regions who flee -fled a long time ago for many- their country chose to bring their cash and acumen to (continental) Europe rather then to UAE and other pro business/not pro asylum seekers countries as it happens quite often.
I really can't figure out the mindset of countries which let in beggars while scaring away succesful entrepreneurs and wealthy heirs.

 

[volpunter]

So you are saying true asylum seekers should be left on their own correct? Please providea us with your sensational screening tips how to differentiate between valid asylum seekers and abusers in case you answered no to the first question.

If france wants to accept illegal immigrants that's entirely up to it, allowing them to settle on the border in camps with the obvious sole intent of crossing is not accepting them and is out of order, if it were the other way around the french would raise hell. The situation as a whole is crazy, accepting them into europe just guarantees Millions will follow. There are no pleasant solutions

 

[volpunter]

Fair point. I got that wrong. Sheda, I apologize and stand corrected in misunderstanding your point there. I have no issue to stand corrected though I still believe you (Sheda) are wearing rose tinted glasses on most UK related issues. How about choosing which Chinese are issued or rejected visa to enter the UK months before China's top is coming for a visit. There are simply thrown a lot of ethical and moral values overboard in the UK at the moment, all in the name of economic growth. And I am afraid this will backfire in the future.

He's talking about the 2004 EU accession countries. I also found it odd that Germany and France, the "core" of Europe didn't want workers from these countries while UK, Sweden and I believe Ireland were very open to it. I remember thinking how hypocritical it was for continental Europe to welcome so many Turks and Africans and reject people from countries that were culturally much closer. I think UK gained quite a few popularity points with that move, it was a smart decision which is also reflected in the economic growth of today.

 

[d08]

Skilled immigrants from outside the eu who enter with a visa based on a skill set, doctors, nurses, engineers, CEOs, mechanics etc cost the uk 118 billion?

You think you can only allow the doctors and engineers in? What about their families? What if they go on disability or lose their jobs? You think there isn't skilled labor from East EU in Britain and all are just plumbers and factory workers?
Facts are facts, just because you don't want to believe it does not make it untrue.

While competition is a bitch the over supply of labour and undercutting of cost is a very real bitch that has impacted the lives of real people well beyond your imagined never employed screaming man with a grievance, its not about the nationality of the people its about supply and demand in labour markets, many nations protect their citizens with reasonable immigration safe guards in relation to labour, the nature of free movement means that is no longer possible and now we face a situation in which the government is willing to turn away doctors from out side of the eu in place of road sweepers and beggars inside it.

Because that's what give and take is. British companies also have favorable conditions in Eastern Europe compared to companies from outside the EU. Similarly, Brits who move within the EU have more rights as opposed to moving outside the EU.

While you paint an entirely rosy picture its far from the case, from romanian crime epidemics (who are 8 times more likely to be imprisoned than brits) to benefit tourism (more than twice as many European Union immigrants are claiming unemployment benefits in Britain than vice versa. Almost 65,000 EU nationals are getting Jobseeker's Allowance (JSA) in the UK compared to around 30,000 Britons claiming unemployment benefits elsewhere in the EU) there are many problems that government after government has refused to address which has created the current climate.

I see what you're doing with skewing the stats in your favor. Just singling out jobseeker's allowance is absurd as everything is looked at in the context of give-and-take. You might get pissed at a Polish guy going to the doctor's office but you don't see the other 10 Poles working construction and paying taxes.
Spanish might be annoyed at all the drunken Brits turning their beautiful islands into sh!tholes, do you think they should also have separate rules that state anyone from the British Isles is not allowed to settle and work there?
Bottom lines is that East EU immigrants contribute more than Brits themselves and a lot more than people from outside the EU who on average have many kids (as stated in the article).

Do you think the balance has been lost when to address the british public's concerns about immigration the only thing the goverment has in its power to do is massively reduce the 20,000 skilled workers with guaranteed jobs who enter per year whilst up to half a million skilled/unskilled/unemployed/criminal and everything inbetween enter each year from within the eu?

As I stated before, British citizens and corporations receive beneficial treatment in other EU countries. Britain, like Greece, likes to blame their problems on outsiders while refusing to look at themselves in the mirror. Many of the construction jobs filled by these immigrants actually make housing more affordable as before 2004, there was a shortage in many jobs.