Gay marriage and polygamy
- Thread starter Pekelo
- Start date
Ok, you got me on the nowhere part. Should have read 'Nowhere in the US'
I don't really have an axe to grind against polygamy. I just have a problem with opponents of gay marriage changing the scope of the argument as a defense tactic. They are separate issues. You are debating the number of persons allowed in a marital group. I am debating the gender component of a 2 person marriage.
The polygamists in the US don't have a chance. Gays represent approximately 10% of the population and still have an uphill battle on the marriage issue. I don't have any data on it, but I can't image polygamists as a group being anywhere close to that amount.
Traveler
I don't really have an axe to grind against polygamy. I just have a problem with opponents of gay marriage changing the scope of the argument as a defense tactic. They are separate issues. You are debating the number of persons allowed in a marital group. I am debating the gender component of a 2 person marriage.
The polygamists in the US don't have a chance. Gays represent approximately 10% of the population and still have an uphill battle on the marriage issue. I don't have any data on it, but I can't image polygamists as a group being anywhere close to that amount.
Traveler
It's fun to argue about, and I feel a little discriminated, but other than that I don't really care whether I can marry or not. I have a long-term partner and we have 90% of the benefits of a hetero marriage created through contracts.
We own property together, named each other in our wills and health care directions and cohabitate. The only stuff we can't recreate is government treatment regarding taxes and benefits. Neither of us have employers so none of the employee benefit stuff applies. If we wanted to, we could create an income-sharing agreement and separation contract if we wanted to feel the pains of gay divorce too.
Traveler
We own property together, named each other in our wills and health care directions and cohabitate. The only stuff we can't recreate is government treatment regarding taxes and benefits. Neither of us have employers so none of the employee benefit stuff applies. If we wanted to, we could create an income-sharing agreement and separation contract if we wanted to feel the pains of gay divorce too.
Traveler
You must not have read the article - it even referenced one of the things newt did.
I also suspect you did not read about the sen. byrd., al gore dad and other famous dixiecrats who were against the civil rights movment.
here is a quote from the article
In the 26 major civil rights votes after 1933, a majority of Democrats opposed civil rights legislation in over 80 percent of the votes. By contrast, the Republican majority favored civil rights in over 96 percent of the votes.
[See http://www.congresslink.org/civil/essay.html and http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1982/3/82.03.04.x.html.]
It was appalling the other day to watch former Democratic Senator Bob Kerry totally gloss over Republican efforts in the name of civil rights. He implied that Lott's foot-in-mouth statement was representative of Republican views about civil rights since forever.
Kerry knows better. Yet being a loyal and predictable Democrat, Kerry can create the big lie with the best of them. The media are so in sync with that effort that they don't challenge him.
Kerry also maintained that all the Dixiecrats became Republicans shortly after passage of the Voting Rights Act of 1965, another big lie. Richard Russell, Mendell Rivers, Clinton's mentor William Fulbright, Robert Byrd, Fritz Hollings and Al Gore Sr. remained Democrats till their dying day.
Most of the Dixiecrats did not become Republicans. They created the Dixiecrats and then, when the civil rights movement succeeded, they returned to the Democratic fold. It was not till much later, with a new, younger breed of Southerner and the thousands of Northerners moving into the South, that Republicans began to make gains.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/12/13/194350.shtml
In the Senate, Minority Leader Everett Dirksen had little trouble rounding up the votes of most Republicans, and former presidential candidate Richard Nixon also lobbied hard for the bill. Senate Majority Leader Michael Mansfield and Senator Hubert Humphrey led the Democrat drive for passage, while the chief opponents were Democrat Senators Sam Ervin, of later Watergate fame, Albert Gore Sr., and Robert Byrd. Senator Byrd, a former Klansman whom Democrats still call "the conscience of the Senate", filibustered against the civil rights bill for fourteen straight hours before the final vote. The House of Representatives passed the bill by 289 to 126, a vote in which 79% of Republicans and 63% of Democrats voted yes. The Senate vote was 73 to 27, with 21 Democrats and only 6 Republicans voting no. President Johnson signed the new Civil Rights Act into law on July 2, 1964.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1163200/posts
Please tell me when I can stop changing your mind on this subject.
And if you wish to review how the womens suffrage movement legislation did not get passed until the repulicans controlled congress and were in the forefront of the movement let me know.
I also suspect you did not read about the sen. byrd., al gore dad and other famous dixiecrats who were against the civil rights movment.
here is a quote from the article
In the 26 major civil rights votes after 1933, a majority of Democrats opposed civil rights legislation in over 80 percent of the votes. By contrast, the Republican majority favored civil rights in over 96 percent of the votes.
[See http://www.congresslink.org/civil/essay.html and http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1982/3/82.03.04.x.html.]
It was appalling the other day to watch former Democratic Senator Bob Kerry totally gloss over Republican efforts in the name of civil rights. He implied that Lott's foot-in-mouth statement was representative of Republican views about civil rights since forever.
Kerry knows better. Yet being a loyal and predictable Democrat, Kerry can create the big lie with the best of them. The media are so in sync with that effort that they don't challenge him.
Kerry also maintained that all the Dixiecrats became Republicans shortly after passage of the Voting Rights Act of 1965, another big lie. Richard Russell, Mendell Rivers, Clinton's mentor William Fulbright, Robert Byrd, Fritz Hollings and Al Gore Sr. remained Democrats till their dying day.
Most of the Dixiecrats did not become Republicans. They created the Dixiecrats and then, when the civil rights movement succeeded, they returned to the Democratic fold. It was not till much later, with a new, younger breed of Southerner and the thousands of Northerners moving into the South, that Republicans began to make gains.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/12/13/194350.shtml
In the Senate, Minority Leader Everett Dirksen had little trouble rounding up the votes of most Republicans, and former presidential candidate Richard Nixon also lobbied hard for the bill. Senate Majority Leader Michael Mansfield and Senator Hubert Humphrey led the Democrat drive for passage, while the chief opponents were Democrat Senators Sam Ervin, of later Watergate fame, Albert Gore Sr., and Robert Byrd. Senator Byrd, a former Klansman whom Democrats still call "the conscience of the Senate", filibustered against the civil rights bill for fourteen straight hours before the final vote. The House of Representatives passed the bill by 289 to 126, a vote in which 79% of Republicans and 63% of Democrats voted yes. The Senate vote was 73 to 27, with 21 Democrats and only 6 Republicans voting no. President Johnson signed the new Civil Rights Act into law on July 2, 1964.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1163200/posts
Please tell me when I can stop changing your mind on this subject.
And if you wish to review how the womens suffrage movement legislation did not get passed until the repulicans controlled congress and were in the forefront of the movement let me know.
The above was for james bond.
This for that duplicitous zzz
since I did educate you on this subject I noticed you craftily modifed your lies by saying goldwater repulicans.
first of all you know damn well it was the republicans who ensured a non watered down version of the civil rights act of 1964 was passed while dems voted against it.
And you know that for years the party of lincoln safeguarded blacks rights. Until the KKK led by democrats pretty much wiped out republicans in the south.
but you then chose to bring goldwater out as if republicans did not pass the civil rights legislation over democratic opposition. Your rhetoric is disgusting as you implicit lie to slander the good people who change the country and voted for civil rights.
Goldwater was philosophically against a larger federal govt and in fact at times he did support blacks rights just not the civil rights act.
All the lies to cover up the true facts. Aren't you liberals tired of them?
This for that duplicitous zzz
since I did educate you on this subject I noticed you craftily modifed your lies by saying goldwater repulicans.
first of all you know damn well it was the republicans who ensured a non watered down version of the civil rights act of 1964 was passed while dems voted against it.
And you know that for years the party of lincoln safeguarded blacks rights. Until the KKK led by democrats pretty much wiped out republicans in the south.
but you then chose to bring goldwater out as if republicans did not pass the civil rights legislation over democratic opposition. Your rhetoric is disgusting as you implicit lie to slander the good people who change the country and voted for civil rights.
Goldwater was philosophically against a larger federal govt and in fact at times he did support blacks rights just not the civil rights act.
All the lies to cover up the true facts. Aren't you liberals tired of them?
Following the Kennedy assassination, which shook America to its core (not unlike 9/11) republican politicians (not true conservatives like Goldwater) gave support to Johnson and his programs, as the polls and public outcry was for the attempt to fulfill the vision of Kennedy.
Those Dixiecrats, who continued with their regressive thought...were red staters, who are now republicans.
In the same what that most of the democrats rubber stamped Bush's wishes following 9/11, the republican politicans rubber stamped Johnson's civil rights actions, for fear of alienating voters...
The true conservatives, which were followers of Godlwater and the red staters (then Dixiecrats) stayed consistent with their regressive mentality, which is now seen to be pervasive in republican party with the expansion of the regressive movement.
Those Dixiecrats, who continued with their regressive thought...were red staters, who are now republicans.
In the same what that most of the democrats rubber stamped Bush's wishes following 9/11, the republican politicans rubber stamped Johnson's civil rights actions, for fear of alienating voters...
The true conservatives, which were followers of Godlwater and the red staters (then Dixiecrats) stayed consistent with their regressive mentality, which is now seen to be pervasive in republican party with the expansion of the regressive movement.
You're just confused. Historically, when it comes to civil rights issues, Republican=liberal and Democrat=conservative. That started to change under JFK and LBJ, and Nixon. Nixon was very successful in turning to the southern conservative votes for a Republican coalition that built the foundation for Republican domination of politics for the next four decades. That was when the Republican party turned completely conservative on social issues, and at the same time Democrats turned completely liberal (with the help of dixiecrats switching parties).
I challenged you to name "conservatives" who were also civil rights leaders. You are not answering the question.
Gingrich did nothing for the civil rights movement. Every single conservative southern Republican, was once a dixiecrat and opposed to the civil rights movement. Robert Byrd is a dixiecrat, and the only one that has not switched the party. But he is a conservative, not a liberal.
I worked for the democratic policy committee in 1987 when byrd was the leader of the majority of the party and hence my boss.
Byrd was no conservative. He seemed a little crazy but he was liberal. Perhaps because he had to be for the sake of his scrwed up party. Many of the people working for him were socialists and/or neo commies. He and joe biden lied like hell about the mail they were receiving. It was largely in favor of Judge Bork by the way.
In his offices, his staff hung posters of people working the fields.
In spanish on the posters it said the land belongs to the people who work it.
I was outraged as these posters were in the Senate office buildings.
Your undrestanding of the civil rights movement is similarly confused.
And you continue to assert stuff without referecene while I gave you vote count tha showed repubicans for civil rights and dems against. I gave you one cite that said Gingrich led the fight in West Va. There is other information on the net.
If you would just type in republicans and civil rights in yahoo you might learn the true history.
In the 26 major civil rights votes after 1933, a majority of Democrats opposed civil rights legislation in over 80 percent of the votes. By contrast, the Republican majority favored civil rights in over 96 percent of the votes.
By the way as far as zzz fundamentalists have blocked progress that is bullshit also.
Many fundamentalists like Pat Robertson led the fight for civil rights legislation.
Byrd was no conservative. He seemed a little crazy but he was liberal. Perhaps because he had to be for the sake of his scrwed up party. Many of the people working for him were socialists and/or neo commies. He and joe biden lied like hell about the mail they were receiving. It was largely in favor of Judge Bork by the way.
In his offices, his staff hung posters of people working the fields.
In spanish on the posters it said the land belongs to the people who work it.
I was outraged as these posters were in the Senate office buildings.
Your undrestanding of the civil rights movement is similarly confused.
And you continue to assert stuff without referecene while I gave you vote count tha showed repubicans for civil rights and dems against. I gave you one cite that said Gingrich led the fight in West Va. There is other information on the net.
If you would just type in republicans and civil rights in yahoo you might learn the true history.
In the 26 major civil rights votes after 1933, a majority of Democrats opposed civil rights legislation in over 80 percent of the votes. By contrast, the Republican majority favored civil rights in over 96 percent of the votes.
By the way as far as zzz fundamentalists have blocked progress that is bullshit also.
Many fundamentalists like Pat Robertson led the fight for civil rights legislation.