Gaining Muscle and Losing Fat (2015)

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Frederick Foresight said:
I didn't say that. I said that while the exercise sequence in the video may give a good cardio workout, the strength/hypertrophy component is likely compromised; I didn't say it was nonexistent. I'm not saying it's a walk in the park, just that there are more efficient ways to build strength.

People use momentum to lift a weight that they could otherwise not be able to lift without momentum. Therefore, to make a momentum-type exercise sufficiently difficult to be worthwhile, you have to use a higher weight than you would use for an exercise that does not require momentum, all else being equal. A heavier weight with momentum is a riskier proposition than a lighter weight without momentum. That is my point. Plus, when not using momentum, the muscles are under tension for the entire range of motion rather than just a portion of it. The guy in the video was using momentum. It may look good and feel good. And you may prefer it. I don't.

Again, I'm not suggesting that what you are proposing is easy, and I'm not suggesting it has no value. But I don't think that working all of the muscle groups at the same time ("all muscles forced to fire at the same time") adequately and completely works any individual muscle group. You can't work all muscle groups to or near failure at the same time. I'm all for efficiency and focus almost exclusively on compounds. But I prefer one at a time. Consider a compound of your choice, be it a squat, a pull-up or whatever, and do it with absolutely no momentum at a deliberate and uniform speed both up and down to the point of failure. I think that is how you make maximal inroads.

I think compounds taken to failure can enhance athleticism, and certainly when coupled with cardio comprising bursts of max speed intervals.

"Mirror exercises" are mostly isolation-type exercises, which I have discarded years ago. Basic compounds have evolutionary relevance, whereas isolation exercises do not. As for narcissism, I could make that argument for swinging a heavier weight rather than properly lifting a lighter one and making the muscle work every inch of the way, both up and down.
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While I don't fall for the evolution reference, I get what you are talking about in terms of functionality of the compound movement. And that's what I've been trying to describe, too. The oly lifts provide an incremental functionality benefit over squats alone that in my view are as large as the squat over a leg press. It's precisely this difference that I'm talking about.

And lets face it. Claiming that traditional weightlifting workouts in a gym are for the health/functionality benefits is like saying that we look at Playboy for the articles. It's bullshit. It's done to look good. And no, people don't do oly lifts to look good. The walls of traditional gyms are nothing but mirrors. The walls in a gym where they oly lift are not. There's a reason for that.
 
Interesting debate, but I still fall in the why run the risk camp. I suppose if you're a younger person, have GREAT instruction, and a good degree of sense when lifting, these moves can be a integral part of your routine. I'm long past those days.

As far as crossfit goes, which I love, you really have to be careful and not get carried away with setting PR every friggin time you're at the gym. The biggest problem with crossfit is that it has a general philosophy of pushing yourself to the limit every damn time you're working out. The cumulative effect of that is disastrous. If you like competition,(I do), like pushing yourself,(I do), enjoy new challenges,(I do), it's an easy trap to fall into. Work hard, but be sensible about the duration and cumulative component. That matters and it matters a lot.
 
fhl said:
While I don't fall for the evolution reference, I get what you are talking about in terms of functionality of the compound movement. And that's what I've been trying to describe, too. The oly lifts provide an incremental functionality benefit over squats alone that in my view are as large as the squat over a leg press. It's precisely this difference that I'm talking about.

And lets face it. Claiming that traditional weightlifting workouts in a gym are for the health/functionality benefits is like saying that we look at Playboy for the articles. It's bullshit. It's done to look good. And no, people don't do oly lifts to look good. The walls of traditional gyms are nothing but mirrors. The walls in a gym where they oly lift are not. There's a reason for that.
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Well, at least the distance of our disagreement is narrowing. I'm not sure what kind of functionality you're talking about. The only functionality you're building with any exercise is the ability to do that particular exercise better. Running doesn't necessarily give you the best cardio workout, but it sure makes you good at running. The same could be said for any exercise or lift. The idea of doing a comprehensive exercise routine is to make your body more robust for other activities that interest you. Doing your Oly "functional" lifts won't make a person a better hockey or footfall player; only playing hockey or football will do that.

To maximize strength gains, you need to make inroads in the muscles being addressed. That means going to failure or very close to it. But if you're doing a number of compounds simultaneously, you can't hope to uniformly and simultaneously exhaust the worked muscles to that level. You can make huge demands on your body and work it to exhaustion, but not necessarily the muscle groups themselves. It may be a great workout, but it depends on what your goals are.

Everyone works out to look good (including the Oly boys). I know I do. Most people also do it for their health and fitness. If I did it only to look good at any cost, then I would also do all kinds of fat burners and 'roids and whatever. But I don't. Rather, I work out hard and eat clean. It goes a long way. I'm guessing that regular gyms have mirrors because they cater to the mainstream crowd. Sure, people like to look at themselves, but it also makes the gym look bigger. Whatever works to get people in, right? And I suppose there is some value for those who are learning to exercise to watch their form as they do the movement. But keep in mind that an Oly gym caters to a more uniformly serious crowd, whereas a mainstream gym has a more broad-based clientele. Yeah, there are doofs, but there are also people who know what they're doing.

And finally, here's a one-minute video worth watching:


I find the rationale particularly compelling as we get older. We can still work out hard and go to the limit. But we are at greater risk of injury than our younger brethren. That's just the way it is. And so I think it pays to accommodate ourselves to those circumstances.
 
CaptainObvious said:
As far as crossfit goes, which I love, you really have to be careful and not get carried away with setting PR every friggin time you're at the gym. The biggest problem with crossfit is that it has a general philosophy of pushing yourself to the limit every damn time you're working out. The cumulative effect of that is disastrous. If you like competition,(I do), like pushing yourself,(I do), enjoy new challenges,(I do), it's an easy trap to fall into. Work hard, but be sensible about the duration and cumulative component. That matters and it matters a lot.
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Although I suppose there is a camaraderie aspect to it, I otherwise like nothing about CrossFit. I read a little bit about it, saw a video or two on the Internet, and watched a 60 Minutes segment on it a while back. Near as I can figure, these people don't care about form, they just care about reps. I think that's potentially destructive. I don't mind the going-all-out aspect, because I do that as a matter of course, albeit in a controlled manner. On the 60 Minute segment there was one guy being egged on by his cohorts while he was doing pull ups. He was cheating in every manner possible. His range of motion was limited, and he was kipping throughout the entire movement, relying more on momentum than on strength. All he seemed to care about was the numbers, the reps. And that's all his cohorts cared about because they, too, didn't know any better.

Quick story. When I was in my 20s, during school and soon after when I began working, I had stopped lifting weights and worked out using only a bodyweight routine for a number of years. So, pull ups, chin ups, dips, push ups, inverted rows and so on. I started liking the numbers I was getting, and found myself using momentum more and more. At one point, I was doing 60 pull ups using a full range of motion, but using momentum (kipping) like nobody's business. It was impressive for someone who didn't know any better. Near as I can figure, it didn't make me more "functional." And when I went back to weights and started adding modest weight to my pull ups, it was humbling. I couldn't even do proper weighted pull ups without kipping. So kipping had made me good at kipping. Eventually, I was able to work up to adding 65 lbs to my pull ups for an initial work set of 6 reps, without kipping. That was a good many years ago. But here's the thing. I bet if I had tried kipping unweighted pull ups at that time, that I wouldn't have been able to do the 60 reps I had done years earlier. Bottom line: doing an exercise in a certain way makes you good at doing that exercise in that way.
 
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The past 5 weeks I've been gaining strength, adding weight to the bar. Two things I haven't done in months. What a turn around since I had my Afib wakeup call on July 2nd. Breathing and meditation working really well. Sleep much more soundly. I mean it's nothing short of dramatic. Just a 45 minute workout, a tough one, but just that. Two full days rest in between. Been on a 3 days of upper body, 3 days of lower body, one day full body. Rise, wash, repeat.
I may write a book. How to destroy yourself and make a miraculous comeback. I might even acknowledge the contribution from Freddie. :p Hey, when you're right, you're right, and old Fred was right, least in my case.
 
Anyone here a fan of the loaded carries such as the Farmers walk? I've been using variations to finish off my workouts. Works a whole bunch of muscles and not a bad little cardio. In addition, picking up heavy shit and carrying it improves your "man card" status.:strong:
 
I walk for exercise and wear backpack with 20lbs in it to build up back muscles but mainly so when I walk, reminds me not to slump. I am up to eight miles a day now five days a week, was harder when it got to 105 degrees, I would carry a gallon of water on the way to Starbucks get hot regular coffee. Starbucks has become my side office of meeting folks or they usually just show up asking for advise on why their messed up business is failing. But I sit there for couple hours, and thankfully walking back is down hill much of it, have hot coffee cup in one hand and half gallon of water in other, only thing I lose from walking is water loss. But it keeps me centered on eating 1,000 calories of mainly veggies, eating 50% raw veggies and other 50% steamed and drinking down the water in the pot. I do eat meat twice a month, Liver, as I get anemic if I don't, just can't keep tofu down.

I suppose you have to do hours of walking to lose weight or pushing a car or other weight training, but I often think any exercise will more likely keep heart happier and reminds you not to eat wrong. I do believe in not eating past 6pm or at least 6 hours before bed time. I been losing 10 lbs a month this way of life and another 8 months be down to 205, but was more fun eating to 454 due to taking drugs containing steroids. I have a disease called Sarcoidosis and am chronic, it produces huge amount of inflammation, I have found Tumeric to work better than steroids, it is an India spice, most body pains as associated with inflammation in my past. I was getting Diabetic foot and leg pains, am on edge of being Diabetic, I have found taking 2,500% of B-Complex gets rids of 90% of the pain as it has to do with hyper-active nerves. It amazing so many supplements and vitamins work better than drug company products. I use Emu lotion as well for pain, it is a blue crème from the Emu animal, it seems to work on light muscle pain.

I know in my heart as I get closer to 205lbs will get rid of more pains I have as many of them that were deep have subsided.

Great weekend all.
 
Thought I'd share some things here. In the continuing effort to bring myself back from the nearly dead, I met with a couple naturalist types and a Homeopathic doctor which were recommend to me by friends. I'm looking for better supplements and such.
I'm now on a SACC B probiotic to restore my lousy gut. Also taking some Kefir which helps that.
Drinking some natural bone broth soup daily. Got a liquid vitamin called Source of Life which comes recommended. Also Supplement my magnesium levels, which even my cardiologist recommended, with Natural Calm by Natural vitality and Magnesium Taurate.
Tough road back man. Really cut back on the exercise frequency and intensity. Getting better, but brother, I screwed myself into the ground earlier this year by doing WAAAAAY to much.
 
Chronic Cardio: Is it Negatively Affecting Your Weight And Health?:

Is it really possible to do TOO MUCH cardio? Isn’t running, spinning, and using the elliptical 45-60 minutes a day good for the heart and the best way to lose weight? It might surprise you to learn that a growing number of experts believe that the answer is “NO”

Full Article: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/chro...eight-health-goldman?trk=pulse_spock-articles

 
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