I know you're not a bible reading theist. That's why I'm suggesting you read at least something. It appears as if you are making up your "religion" as you go along. Not saying you can't. But at least take a gander at a more developed religion to understand what religion and theism is actually all about.
For my Christians Friends
- Thread starter nyxtrader
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I know you're not a bible reading theist. That's why I'm suggesting you read at least something. It appears as if you are making up your "religion" as you go along. Not saying you can't. But at least take a gander at a more developed religion to understand what religion and theism is actually all about.
Could you point me to some historical documentation that there was a belief in the existence of an atom before discovery?
Superstitious belief in "elements" do not count. Read about why and what was meant by elements. Hint: Aristolele's four element theory of Earth, water, air, fire was based upon... OBSERVATION.
Google "discovery of the atom."
Everything is first based off OBSERVATION. All theories, hunches, guesses, wishes, delusions, etc have their foundation in something first observed.
So Voltaire is wrong in as much as he didn't address what prompts the thought of or belief in a concept. They don't come out of thin air. Their foundation (or prompting) is from something first observed. Pick any concept you like and you will see this to be so.
And, this so called higher power would have to be larger than the universe if it created it. But at the same time cannot be altogether "outside" of it. It must be omnipresent. Meaning the universe would be contained "inside" this higher power.
This concept has been expertly done on a philosophical level. Might want to read up about that too.
I don't think that they did so in the name of non-religion. I would imagine that the non-religious murderers killed for other stupid reasons and not for stupid religious reasons. In my post which you quotes, I was merely pointing to the similarity between the Taliban and extreme "Christianity." Oppposite sides of the same coin. And that kind of dogma can only be fostered in an environment where people are encouraged to suspend critical thinking. Religion requires the suspension of critical thinking. Do the math.
It would appear that Voltaire, the 18th century political* writer, was a deist. So, while he believed that there was a supernatural being that created the universe (as did most of his contemporaries), he did not believe that there was a god who concerns himself with the lives and actions of people. He was most certainly not a theist. And if he were alive today, I would guess that he would be one step further from being a theist simply because that is the direction that intelligent, critical thought is headed.
*It is precisely because he was a political writer that he could make the comment that I had referred to in my post which you quoted. Specifically, that "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." And the only way that people can be made to believe absurdities is if they willingly give up their critical thinking capabilities in favor of blind faith.
Quote from stu:
<i>It is more likely Max Planck would have walked from religion , never from science. </i>
The fact you think this only shows you are excessively limited in your understanding. I have met very few believers who would do this. Regardless of your vain imaginings.
<i>For a self proclaimed christian like yourself with supposedly 3 degrees in science/engineering, your response above is hardly intelligent nor adult.</i>
The fact that I am both means I know which is far more important The fact that you likely aren't says that you are unequipped to form intelligent or rational comments in this area, except a continuous stream of textual diarrhea. You don't even know why you exist. The only thing your harping on this means to me, is that you think you are smart, when you stare into your cosmological void without likely even much of a scientific understanding.
<i>What is the problem with so called "believers" that cannot hold a rational thought for more than 30 seconds.</i>
What is the problem with do-called skeptics/atheists/agnostics, that they know almost nothing, yet they continue to think they do?
<i>Is it the irrational habits religion dumbs you down into? </i>
Irrational? More irrational in the fact that you are without much of any basis? Your lips cluck out "irrational", yet you are ignorant of any alternative. If it is science, then show me your personal scientific understanding and achievement. I have both, and I see a person who argues against Christianity, but argues from nothing except his self-deceived concept that he knows, when he does not. Prove that you have a basis!
Show me a human culture that has yet been unearthed that did not have a religion practice. This indicates that it is a quite rational human trait.
Does it make you feel good when your existence after death is a complete mystery to you? That you cannot give any reason for your existence other than you think, therefore you are?
Tell me what you will see when you take the Big Sleep? This is going to last beyond quadrillions of years. What will happen to you?
Tell me what your <i>purpose</i> and prove that is your purpose.
<i>It is more likely Max Planck would have walked from religion , never from science. </i>
The fact you think this only shows you are excessively limited in your understanding. I have met very few believers who would do this. Regardless of your vain imaginings.
<i>For a self proclaimed christian like yourself with supposedly 3 degrees in science/engineering, your response above is hardly intelligent nor adult.</i>
The fact that I am both means I know which is far more important The fact that you likely aren't says that you are unequipped to form intelligent or rational comments in this area, except a continuous stream of textual diarrhea. You don't even know why you exist. The only thing your harping on this means to me, is that you think you are smart, when you stare into your cosmological void without likely even much of a scientific understanding.
<i>What is the problem with so called "believers" that cannot hold a rational thought for more than 30 seconds.</i>
What is the problem with do-called skeptics/atheists/agnostics, that they know almost nothing, yet they continue to think they do?
<i>Is it the irrational habits religion dumbs you down into? </i>
Irrational? More irrational in the fact that you are without much of any basis? Your lips cluck out "irrational", yet you are ignorant of any alternative. If it is science, then show me your personal scientific understanding and achievement. I have both, and I see a person who argues against Christianity, but argues from nothing except his self-deceived concept that he knows, when he does not. Prove that you have a basis!
Show me a human culture that has yet been unearthed that did not have a religion practice. This indicates that it is a quite rational human trait.
Does it make you feel good when your existence after death is a complete mystery to you? That you cannot give any reason for your existence other than you think, therefore you are?
Tell me what you will see when you take the Big Sleep? This is going to last beyond quadrillions of years. What will happen to you?
Tell me what your <i>purpose</i> and prove that is your purpose.
Well, this bunch knows that they know very little but are learning more and more everyday. The theist thinks he knows it all already. That's the difference.
Yes, this is true but don't add rational, just leave it at "human trait."
Well, a person's purpose can really only be known in hindsight. And this is true irrespective of religion. Take your patriarchs for example. Their purpose is best understood in hindsight. While they were alive, they didn't know what their purpose was, but had faith in what they were told their purpose was. And that faith in the promise of what their purpose was, was routinely tested.
In any event, what is the purpose of those who you believe are going to hell?
So if a a group knows very little about something, how can they so strongly assert that it is not possible for something to exist ?
If one believes in a creator/ designer , then that creator/designer created/designed everything in existence, from birds to bees, and even the hydrologic cycle. What is supernatural about praying for rain to a creator of the hyrdologic cycle ?
An honest imaginery test that you can't even post about because you know you are full of bs. Unlike an atheass, I don't claim to know everything to such an extent that I can make opinions of something and have faith in it as a fact.
The fact still remains that one can have an open mind about existence of a higher power and not believe in any religion. Religion is man made therefore it will always be naturally flawed. The same holds true for science.