For my Christians Friends

[I am...]

Quote from volente_00:

Say it ain't so ?

"An important scientific innovation rarely makes its way by gradually winning over and converting its opponents: it rarely happens that Saul becomes Paul. What does happen is that its opponents gradually die out and that the growing generation is familiarized with the idea from the beginning. " ~Max Planck The Philosophy of Physics [1936]



Not sure what to say about this.

Jesus

 

[I am...]

Quote from DerekD:

Does love exist? Well, it's more than just a concept. We can see it manifested in the material world.

What is Love?

Let's take love between two people to the exclusion of others.

Quote from DerekD:

Who said anything about proving God exists?

The question wasn't prove god exits but prove love exists. It's been done already and continues. Thought tha'd make you... happy.

The meaning of love is found in wholeness, oneness, equality, and the giving of everything without withholding even one gift. Love cannot be limited. God loves all equally, and gives all to all. This world arises on the idea of special love, something God does not give because it destroys the meaning of love. It is the "lust" after something that is owned exclusively. It's the "+1" in Stu terminology.

So this is a world of strange love. It is a gift to self. So here we find the phenomenon of exclusivity. The very idea of exclusivity renders love meaningless. If it cannot or will not be shared with all, it is not love. This would include all marriages between two people where anyone is excluded from whatever it offers.

To obtain this kind of love, the Son must exclude the Father from this, his private world. This is an impossibility, so it is a fantasy. In it's fantastic design, the body is actually a place to keep God out, and so, it is the only "place" in the universe that guarantees that love cannot enter because it places a limit on love. It's a big "keep out" sign. So love-God-truth is really what this world is built to defend against, and so the evidence for it is nearly nil.

The sight of bodies means that the seer still fantasizes about a place where love cannot enter, where love can be limited, and where he can have something that no one else has. It also means that he is willing to see his brothers "die"...for that is what a body is designed for, and what every body has done since the beginning of time.

This world is made as an attack on God, and so it is an attack on love. The very seeing of bodies is a continuation of this attack whether subtle or overt. It's "normal", so it is not questioned at all. It's a very diplomatic way of saying "go to hell". No, do not thank God for bodies. They are the means of vengeance. They are the means by which a mind attacks itSelf. Our Father does not make what is vulnerable, or what can be destroyed. And everytime a body is destroyed, God is declared dead.

The closest reflection of love in this world is a "miracle". This is the "proof" that love is still alive. The sad fact is, the world is more afraid of love than it is of death. For love would spell the end of this world for the true lover. Salvation is a return to love. It is something that is, and must be shared with all. People are really working overtime not to be saved, because of the fear of love. Those interested in salvation could be working miracles on a daily basis.

Jesus

 

[I am...]

Quote from smilingsynic:

Now, if the person were pronounced dead by many persons, and then lay there dead for a day or two, decomposing, and THEN came back to life, now THAT would be impressive.

Three days would be even more impressive, imo.

Jesus

 

[volente_00]

Quote from stu:

Faith is not requisite.

X therefore Y should be the case.... is not faith. It's expectation.
Fusion therefore nuclear energy... is anticipation not faith.

I know this therefore I predict this...is not faith.
This exists, that exists therefore the atom should exist, is not faith it is a prognosis

Faith (guessing by superstition) is optional but not a necessity.

More gibberish again ?


You word play is poor at best. So how bout I have expectations and predictions that I will live eternally in heaven. Or have expectations and predictions that a higher power exists out there ?


I still await for you to describe your simple test for existence.

In the mean time, feel free to take this one to see how smart an atheist you really are.








http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/atheiststest.html

 

[volente_00]

Quote from Turok:

V00:
>I personally don't know of anyone who
>actually prays for supernatural things to happen.
>Do you ?

You're joking. By definition, when someone prays to a supernatual entity with a request they are praying for supernatural things to happen.

JB

So if I am a farmer and I pray to a higher power for rain to come so my crop does not burn up, how does that fit into your supernatural thing to happen category ? You people are so damn wrapped up in being right that you are blind to the facts.

 

[volente_00]

Quote from Thunderdog:

Or the Christian who feels compelled to kill doctors who perform abortions. It is not enough that this Christian fellow should try to get abortion banned by democratic means because he simply doesn't recognize man's law. He conforms to a "higher" law. Just like the radical Muslim in your example, eh? It was Voltaire who said that "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." I doubt that the Christians who have killed abortion doctors were necessarily taught religious extremes as children. But once you go down the religious road whereby you give up rational judgment and critical thinking for faith, some end up farther along that road than others, eh?

I guess non religous people never commit murder ?



Anyone can make a poor choice in life based on their feelings. Just like those who feel that a higher power does not exist. eh ?

 

[DerekD]

Quote from stu:

Not at all sure I am Jesus should do that Derek. People have called me a cult before now and they didn't sound particularly pleased.




At least I think it was cult.

True, but people eat up all the cryptic spiritual talk. He is quite good at it. And he'd probably make a fortune doing it.

 

[DerekD]

Quote from volente_00:

More gibberish again ?


You word play is poor at best. So how bout I have expectations and predictions that I will live eternally in heaven. Or have expectations and predictions that a higher power exists out there ?


I still await for you to describe your simple test for existence.

In the mean time, feel free to take this one to see how smart an atheist you really are.








http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/atheiststest.html

But what are those expectations based on? Taking the example of the nuclear reactor, the expectation was not based on any belief, but rather something tangible and testable. Look up the history of how humans came to understand the atom all the way up to fusion. It was brick by brick. Observation compounded by observation.

 

[DerekD]

Quote from I am...:

The meaning of love is found in wholeness, oneness, equality, and the giving of everything without withholding even one gift. Love cannot be limited. God loves all equally, and gives all to all. This world arises on the idea of special love, something God does not give because it destroys the meaning of love. It is the "lust" after something that is owned exclusively. It's the "+1" in Stu terminology.

So this is a world of strange love. It is a gift to self. So here we find the phenomenon of exclusivity. The very idea of exclusivity renders love meaningless. If it cannot or will not be shared with all, it is not love. This would include all marriages between two people where anyone is excluded from whatever it offers.

To obtain this kind of love, the Son must exclude the Father from this, his private world. This is an impossibility, so it is a fantasy. In it's fantastic design, the body is actually a place to keep God out, and so, it is the only "place" in the universe that guarantees that love cannot enter because it places a limit on love. It's a big "keep out" sign. So love-God-truth is really what this world is built to defend against, and so the evidence for it is nearly nil.

The sight of bodies means that the seer still fantasizes about a place where love cannot enter, where love can be limited, and where he can have something that no one else has. It also means that he is willing to see his brothers "die"...for that is what a body is designed for, and what every body has done since the beginning of time.

This world is made as an attack on God, and so it is an attack on love. The very seeing of bodies is a continuation of this attack whether subtle or overt. It's "normal", so it is not questioned at all. It's a very diplomatic way of saying "go to hell". No, do not thank God for bodies. They are the means of vengeance. They are the means by which a mind attacks itSelf. Our Father does not make what is vulnerable, or what can be destroyed. And everytime a body is destroyed, God is declared dead.

The closest reflection of love in this world is a "miracle". This is the "proof" that love is still alive. The sad fact is, the world is more afraid of love than it is of death. For love would spell the end of this world for the true lover. Salvation is a return to love. It is something that is, and must be shared with all. People are really working overtime not to be saved, because of the fear of love. Those interested in salvation could be working miracles on a daily basis.

Jesus

I gotta hand it to you. You're really good at this thing you do. You've got the Guru thing down to a tee. You should seriously consider writing a book or two. There are so many people who would dig this stuff. Only, I wouldn't call yourself Jesus or I Am as that would probably alienate and offend many.

 

[DerekD]

Quote from volente_00:

So if I am a farmer and I pray to a higher power for rain to come so my crop does not burn up, how does that fit into your supernatural thing to happen category ? You people are so damn wrapped up in being right that you are blind to the facts.

That's called divine intervention. Cornerstone of every religion.

You really need to study, at least in brief, all the world's religions. In many ways you are arguing against them while trying to argue against atheists.

I was kind of surprised that you didn't recognize the Gideon story in my example of a test for god(s).

Here, read Judges 6. If you just want to get to the example of wet fleece/ dry fleece, see verses 36-40.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=7&chapter=6

It's an example of a miracle and divine intervention.