For my Christians Friends

[stu]

Quote from volente_00:

You prove my point.


Science was skeptical of nuclear energy. Had they not had faith in that it was a possibility, then they would have never arrived at the empirical evidence that we have today. If they had no belief in the possibility then why would they continue to test for it's possibility ?


Take the atom for example, it was not proven to exist for 1000's of years yet it all started as a scientific thought that took a long time to actually achieve physical evidence. Had science not had faith they would eventually be able to prove it's existed, it would have never materialized.

Faith is not requisite.

X therefore Y should be the case.... is not faith. It's expectation.
Fusion therefore nuclear energy... is anticipation not faith.

I know this therefore I predict this...is not faith.
This exists, that exists therefore the atom should exist, is not faith it is a prognosis

Faith (guessing by superstition) is optional but not a necessity.

 

[FanOfFridays]

Quote from stu:

Then it is more likely Max Planck would have walked away from his God and from faith, rather than give up his science.

This is something you could not possibly begin to understand.

Damn... very well said.

 

[stu]

Quote from DerekD:

Do you know how many people would become your follower if you started an organization? I gotta hand it to you, you have the guru thing down to a tee.

Seriously, you should at least write a book. It'd be a best seller in no time at all.

Not at all sure I am Jesus should do that Derek. People have called me a cult before now and they didn't sound particularly pleased.




At least I think it was cult.

 

[stu]

Quote from traderNik:

Damn... very well said.

Praise indeed from the Master Troll Slayer, who single handedly presented King Troll It's head , ass and other flappy bits on a golden platter.

I thank you very kindly sir.

 

[TraderZones]

Quote from stu:

Then it is more likely Max Planck would have walked away from his God and from faith, rather than give up his science.

This is something you could not possibly begin to understand.

Really? What did you major in? You demonstrated that you know how to use cut and paste. Beyond that, you think your words are clever.

Most intelligent people would reject a church's demand like this. Faith is in God, not organizations.

I have 3 degrees in science/engineering. To a person like Planck who also has sincere Christian faith, science would be left in a minute before his faith

Your supposition has no basis, because you have no understanding of what it involves. Science is a pursuit. It is not a fulfillment.

Of course, you will have another "clever" response, but it is no more impressive than a lab rat who finally figures out that the treat is better than an electric shock.

 

[stu]

Quote from TraderZones:

Really? What did you major in? You demonstrated that you know how to use cut and paste. Beyond that, you think your words are clever.

Most intelligent people would reject a church's demand like this. Faith is in God, not organizations.

I have 3 degrees in science/engineering. To a person like Planck who also has sincere Christian faith, science would be left in a minute before his faith

Your supposition has no basis, because you have no understanding of what it involves. Science is a pursuit. It is not a fulfillment.

Of course, you will have another "clever" response, but it is no more impressive than a lab rat who finally figures out that the treat is better than an electric shock.

Why all the vitriol? Why are you so angry? All that emotion!! Is it the Christian in you?
Take a pill dude.

Look. You did the cut & paste, not me. I simply highlighted the part which suggests Max Planck would by his own words which, I repeat, you cut and pasted, have walked away from - on demands of faith and religion - rather than ever from science.

If you do have 3 degrees in science/engineering then I suggest you try better to live up to those standards.
Putting words into Planck's mouth is what a good scientist/engineer would not stoop to .

What is more apparent by what Max Planck said which again I repeat , you cut and pasted, was that he would walk from anything that makes "demands for unquestioning belief."

Science never demands that. Faith usually does. Ergo more likely to walk from faith.


It sounds like on the other hand, you would make a shit poor scientist compared to Planck, irrespective of his great achievements.
Science can bring THE most complete feeling of satisfaction and achievement in the most elegant and meaningul way to the human spirit..
If you did not know that I suggest you leave science alone and become a priest if you think religion is so attractive.

To walk in a minute over faith? Very bad form.

 

[Turok]

V00:
>I personally don't know of anyone who
>actually prays for supernatural things to happen.
>Do you ?

You're joking. By definition, when someone prays to a supernatual entity with a request they are praying for supernatural things to happen.

JB

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from volente_00:

And what if he is radical muslim and he tells you that spirit just told him to detonate that pipe bomb around his chest while he is talking to you ?

Or the Christian who feels compelled to kill doctors who perform abortions. It is not enough that this Christian fellow should try to get abortion banned by democratic means because he simply doesn't recognize man's law. He conforms to a "higher" law. Just like the radical Muslim in your example, eh? It was Voltaire who said that "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." I doubt that the Christians who have killed abortion doctors were necessarily taught religious extremes as children. But once you go down the religious road whereby you give up rational judgment and critical thinking for faith, some end up farther along that road than others, eh?

 

[DerekD]

Quote from Turok:

V00:
>I personally don't know of anyone who
>actually prays for supernatural things to happen.
>Do you ?

You're joking. By definition, when someone prays to a supernatual entity with a request they are praying for supernatural things to happen.

JB

It was so bizarre, I didn't want to touch it.

 

[I am...]

Quote from stu:

No. pie r squared does not exist, except perhaps when mistaken for pi..

Pi r² does.
ð r² is defined. It is proven. That way it exists.

Pi is an irrational number, it can be argued therefore a perfect circle does not exist.

Your point being what exactly?

"We have no right to assume that any physical laws exist, or if they have existed up to now, that they will continue to exist in a similar manner in the future." ~Max Planck The Universe in the Light of Modern Physics[1931]