For my Christians Friends

Quote from stu to volente_00:

...please don't join the atheist side as you promise. With the approach you take toward reasoned logic, it is enough that you must already be inflicting awful nuisance onto theists.
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Oh, I don't know. I think that volente represents the theist point of view quite well. That it would be embarrassing to any reasonable, thinking person is entirely beside the point.

You may have found that our volente chooses not to answer those basic questions asked of him, preferring instead to sidestep honest inquiry and revert to his inane request that you "prove" a negative. Either he is a blithering dolt or a comedian without peer. To date, evidence of the latter has been flimsy at best.

Since our volente has not answered a single one of my questions that specifically addressed the inconsistencies of his own viewpoint, I think it is reasonable to conclude that he has no interest in honest exchange. He only and continually asks that we provide that which is impossible by any measure, irrespective of the negligible probability of the existence of his supernatural god. (I'm surprised he has not yet insisted that we levitate.) And so, against this background of our volente's not responding to honest and legitimate questions, and not even taking a bit of time to assess the work of a preeminent scientist who has compiled a most persuasive counterargument in a single book that has been lauded by many as a masterwork -- if only to assess for himself if it has merit -- then I think it is fairly safe to conclude that our volente is a flaming asshole. In that context, the product and fragrance of his efforts here at ET are entirely understandable.
 
Quote from volente_00:

Stu,

I eagerly await your reply on how you prove your unrestricted negative that God does not exist. Your avoidance of the answer speaks loudly of the intelligence of your atheism religion. Seems quite ironic that some atheist on here tell me you can't prove a negative with logic yet their fundamental BELIEF is the very thing. I'm all ears mr intelligence. So please give us your logical answer on how you prove this unrestricted negative. We don't want the subject changed. We don't want you to attack the questioner. We only want you to answer to the question. So either answer the question or STFUSTU.
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He did answer it ... he said that the method you're using is the best one available and he's quite comfortable with it. Of course he points out that your own method works against you, but you apparently like to avoid that fact.

Once again -- as plain as he made it for you, you're either not very bright or a simple troll.

JB
 
Quote from volente_00:

Stu,

I eagerly await your reply on how you prove your unrestricted negative that God does not exist. Your avoidance of the answer speaks loudly of the intelligence of your atheism religion. Seems quite ironic that some atheist on here tell me you can't prove a negative with logic yet their fundamental BELIEF is the very thing. I'm all ears mr intelligence. So please give us your logical answer on how you prove this unrestricted negative. We don't want the subject changed. We don't want you to attack the questioner. We only want you to answer to the question. So either answer the question or STFUSTU.
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That is absolutely incredible. It is utterly impossible to prove there isn't a god. It's not even a possible question. One can only conclude that there is no God. To even begin to entertain the question, one must presuppose the existence of God. So you're asking an atheist to assume God exists, or more properly, assume the likelihood of a god or gods existence but try to negate that likelihood with evidence.

The best theologians in the world and in history know better than to take this asinine and illogical approach.

Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

All atheists can do is look at the various assertions for the existence of the competing gods and conclude that none of the exist.

In atheism's early days, there was a pantheon of Gods. Guess what? The atheists were dead right about those Gods. The Hebrew god you believe in was unknown to the Greeks of the time. The Greeks had their creation myths too. The funny thing is, you'll point and laugh at the Greeks and their defunct religion just as an atheist would. But it wasn't up to the atheists of the day to prove the gods of the Greeks didn't exist. They concluded these things from a lack of evidence to support the existence of these Gods.

So it is today. Theists assert a plethora of gods yet fail to provide testable evidence of their existence. So how is anyone to claim with assurance that can be transmitted to someone else that their God exists? How is the Hebrew God any more real than the African Gods? Or the Muslim God? Or the Hindu Gods and Goddesses? You reject them, but based on what grounds? I reject those Gods as non-existent because I have seen or know of no proof that they exist. How do you arrive at the conclusion that those other gods are non-existent. Have you proven that they don't exist as you idiotically clamor for atheists to prove your god doesn't exist?

If not, then as you ask Stu, I ask you to STFU. Otherwise you look like an ass. And that's not ad hominem. That's ad rem.
 
Quote from DerekD:

*shaking head* You just don't get it. And it gets a little silly.

Shaking head? You couldn't begin to go toe to toe with me on the science front.

You do know that there are many creation stories and many differing views of God don't you? Of course you do. And you'll run around thinking that those other views are wrong, right? You might laugh of pity those who hold differing views of creation and God wouldn't you? Of course.

This might make you feel clever, but the truth is I have no pity nor laugh at people who are either atheists or hold alternative religious views. People hold to thousands of beliefs. That is completely obvious. So "of course... Not"

So? I have no problem with my view. Watching you generate "problems" is something I have seen many times, and does not convince at all. Do you know why?

This is vacuous

Because you're an atheist when it comes to the other gods than differ from yours - a theist when it comes to the god you believe in.

I didn't come to where I am through "belief". I saw more than enough to convince a biologist/engineer.

OK.

Well, an atheist doesn't believe in the same gods you don't believe in, but for the reason that those people who worship those other god can't prove that those other gods exists but assert(claim) that they do.

Well, when it comes to you and your god, you assert (claim) that it does exists but fail to back that claim up.

So, since none of the asserted (claimed) gods have been proven to exist, what's an atheist to conclude? That there's a god yet to be asserted that exists?

pointer chasing

So since none of the asserted gods have been proven to exist, the atheist and agnostic are left to examine the material universe based on material evidence. That's all there is to work with. Sciences best guesses are based on and derived from material reality. Because that is all there is to work with.

Even if you assert "god did it!" the question that remains is how did god do it?

As i said in a post prior, science is a work in progress. This utter nonsense about science being a religion is asinine.

I didn't say it is a religion. I study science constantly and am quite fascinated with most of it. I personally am a firm believer in evolution, a 13+ BY old Universe, etc.

Yes. Science is a work in progress - in diapers really. The problem comes, when people who themselves barely understand the existing science, and wave it as if it are an established paradigm that can morph over into the infinite. And the reality is, it has barely left the runway.

Science is not a weapon against religion. It is an embryonic encapsulation of our feeble scratchings at a horrendously complicated and mostly nonunderstood cosmos. Name the last time a planetary probe when by Io, Eros, Titan or another solar system entity, and we didn't have to "rewrite the books" on what we currently understood? And this is in our own solar system.
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If you could, clean up the quoting of your post.

But it appears you agree with what much of what I say, yet have the gall to call it vacuous. Knee-jerk much?

But, I like how you completely skipped over the part that puts you squarely in the atheist camp. If you deny it, then you must also agree with the other religions and their Gods as co-existing with the one you follow. Or you might think yourself clever and say that you are agnostic about those other gods.
 
A Christian lady who lived next door to an atheist
There was a Christian lady who lived next door to an atheist. Every day, when the lady prayed, the atheist guy could hear her. He thought to himself, "She sure is crazy, praying all the time like that. Doesn't she know there isn't a God?"

Many times while she was praying, he would go to her house and harass her, saying "Lady, why do you pray all the time? Don't you know there is no God?" But she kept on praying.

One day, she ran out of groceries. As usual, she was praying to the Lord explaining her situation and thanking Him for what He was gonna do. As usual, the atheist heard her praying and thought to himself, "Humph! I'll fix her."

He went to the grocery store, bought a whole bunch of groceries, took them to her house, dropped them off on the front porch, rang the door bell and then hid in the bushes to see what she would do. When she opened the door and saw the groceries, she began to praise the Lord with all her heart, jumping, singing and shouting everywhere! The atheist then jumped out of the bushes and told her, "You ol' crazy lady, God didn't buy you those groceries, I bought those groceries!" At hearing this, she broke out and started running down the street, shouting and praising the Lord.

When he finally caught her, he asked what her problem was. She said, "I knew the Lord would provide me with some groceries, but I didn't know he was gonna make the devil pay for them!"
 
That's pretty funny.

You're gonna love this joke:

Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

OK maybe not a joke per se but I guess you could say that the joke would be on those who thought they were "saved" but weren't.

Tricky, ain't it?
 
Quote from DerekD:

That's pretty funny.

You're gonna love this joke:

Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

OK maybe not a joke per se but I guess you could say that the joke would be on those who thought they were "saved" but weren't.

Tricky, ain't it?
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Although not "tricky", a VERY good point and a true statement DerekD. In fact, you sound just like a preacher friend of mine.:p You see, if taken in context Jesus was making the point that just "saying" He is Lord won't get it. There are a lot of people that say things that aren't the truth or maybe put on a big show to fool other people, we all know that...right? Truth is...we ourselves and God know what is really in our heart and mind.

Here is something else to think on that Jesus said...
Matt.10:32)"Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33)But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."
 
The term "Christian" is found only twice in the Bible. More ironically it is used both times by NON believers describing believers.... However.... The man in the red letters... you know the important one... called us His children.

Christian means "Christ follower" I'm not a Christ follower!?!? What a ridiculous statement..... My children are not "piratebob followers" they are "my children" There is truth that accompanies that phrase as opposed to the first one.
 
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