For my Christians Friends

[volente_00]

Quote from DerekD:

Define perfection.

Bear in mind that perfection is always a relative term.

 

[volente_00]

Quote from stu:

This is what I am saying.
I can propose a very clear and simple test, based on fact and the scientific method which would convince enough to constitute proof.

In your opinion it would constitute proof, so what would this very simple test consist of ? I personally don't think you can scientifically test for something that is spiritual. Like taking your car to a hospital instead of a mechanic.

 

[DerekD]

Quote from volente_00:

Relative to some of the sunsets that I see almost everyday through my glass wall facing my backyard overlooking the bay, I'd rate that a 7 out of 10.

 

[DerekD]

Quote from volente_00:

In your opinion it would constitute proof, so what would this very simple test consist of ? I personally don't think you can scientifically test for something that is spiritual.

First of all, you can't test for something which is undefined. What is spiritual?

 

[volente_00]

Quote from DerekD:

Relative to some of the sunsets that I see almost everyday through my glass wall facing my backyard overlooking the bay, I'd rate that a 7 out of 10.

Your opinion means nothing. You are basing your rating on feelings. Show us skeptics some proof.

 

[DerekD]

Quote from volente_00:

Your opinion means nothing. You are basing your rating on feelings. Show us skeptics some proof.

Well said and well played.

Except I know they mean relatively nothing and are based on my own arbitrariness and perception.

 

[volente_00]

Quote from smilingsynic:

Not necessarily. An invisible being could do miracles too. Claude Rains did some pretty funky things in the movies; I'd expect more from an invisible God.

Actually, the love analogy is one I have considered.

Is love a real entity, or do people BELIEVE in love and therefore have a belief that makes them do certain things?

Is love a delusion? Is GOD a delusion? Hmmm.

Both are based on feelings, not reason.

Belief in God and belief in love are powerful forces, among the most powerful in existence.

One can stop believing in both.

Belief in both help may help make people happy and may help give meaning to the individual outside the individual. There is a good side to that, and also a bad side: delusion and dependency.

Some of the most ardent former theists become the most ardent atheists. Any one remember Sam Kinison? Likewise, the couples that have the most awful divorces were probably both totally, hopelessly in love.

I am going nowhere in this, because, ultimately, one can prove with reason neither the existence of love nor of God. But BELIEF in both is irrefutable.

Interesting correlation eh ? So do atheist believe in love ?

 

[volente_00]

Quote from DerekD:

First of all, you can't test for something which is undefined. What is spiritual?

Interesting considering some on here say they have simple tests to constitute proof.

 

[stu]

Quote from volente_00:

Interesting considering some on here say they have simple tests to constitute proof.

ya mean moi?

 

[stu]

I stated...
"I can propose a very clear and simple test, based on fact and the scientific method which would convince enough to constitute proof. "

Quote from volente_00:

In your opinion it would constitute proof, so what would this very simple test consist of ?


I personally don't think you can scientifically test for something that is spiritual. Like taking your car to a hospital instead of a mechanic.

Can you honestly still not see your the conundrum you set against your own argument?
Obviously not.

Here's your clue in your own words...

Quote from volente_00:

So basically, you are saying God could appear and nothing it did would constitute proof enough to convince you.

there yet...?