Florida high school under lockdown after reports of shooter, victims, police say

[newwurldmn]

If I am understanding you correctly, you are proposing to eliminate all motor vehicles and alcohol?

If so, that is true commitment to your point of view!

No. I was agreeing with you that hundreds of millions of lives are not worth my inconvenience. My right to drive drunk is important even if it kills hundreds of millions of people who oppose it.

And there is no middle ground. Either I get to drive drunk or we ban all cars.

 

[gwb-trading]

No. I was agreeing with you that hundreds of millions of lives are not worth my inconvenience. My right to drive drunk is important even if it kills hundreds of millions of people who oppose it.

And there is no middle ground. Either I get to drive drunk or we ban all cars.

Take Uber

 

[Tsing Tao]

1. As far as the shooting news I read last few years, part of the guns used for mass killing were just acquired according to emotional short-term plans. Rather than relatively long-term plans (say, wanting to kill many people 5 or 10 years later).

That short-term plans were probably triggered by recent arguments/incidents encountered not too far from the killing incidents.

The vegas shooter has his guns for a long, long time and planned his assault (supposedly) for a long time as well.

2. We would have to assume the large number of powerful guns sold longer than say 3 years should be kept in stable minds/hands with reasonably secure safe-keeping procedures/places.

I think this is a very broad assumption and not something I'd be comfortable with. You can go to a gun show and buy an AR15 with no check necessary, did you know that? Remove that (and we should) and the buyer and seller move underground.

3. The process mentioned last post is to start checking pro-actively from the point of Inquiring any powerful guns. Rather than actually buying, that would be probably already too late.

When the background of an inquiring person can be checked with her/his current or recent workplace organisations for whether any potentially problematic issues. The inquiring person needs to talk to at least a couple of professional (mental health related or else) for getting approval of buying guns.

Are you suggesting that prior to being approved for purchasing a weapon, someone needs to complete a psyche eval? That would subject all those who follow the law to that, fine, and slow down the process, which I'm not against. But people who know they would fail would skip that and get a gun illegally through any number of a dozen different ways they can now. The problem, again, is the hundreds of millions of firearms on the street as of today.

 

[maximumpossiblesuffering]

No. I was agreeing with you that hundreds of millions of lives are not worth my inconvenience. My right to drive drunk is important even if it kills hundreds of millions of people who oppose it.

And there is no middle ground. Either I get to drive drunk or we ban all cars.

Speaking of hundreds of millions of people, there’s nothing that we’ve said that isn’t worth having an abortion for!

 

[schweiz]

https://schoolshooters.info/about-dr-langman

 

[Tsing Tao]

No. I was agreeing with you that hundreds of millions of lives are not worth my inconvenience. My right to drive drunk is important even if it kills hundreds of millions of people who oppose it.

And there is no middle ground. Either I get to drive drunk or we ban all cars.

There is a law against drunk driving. And people still do it. All the time.

You can operate a motor vehicle legally, or illegally. Just like a firearm. It is the individual who is guilty of the crime - not the object used in the crime.

 

[maximumpossiblesuffering]

I actually believe that some reform of gun laws are needed. This puts me at odds with a number of posters on ET and the NRA.

Similar to vaccines, the manufacturers and/or importers of guns should pay a fee for each unit to a fund that is used to compensate victims of those who use guns improperly. Vaccines do this now for people who endure severe side effects.

Of course the above puts me at odds with the NRA and others, but I believe some types of reforms are needed in gun laws. Additionally there should be a focus on requiring proper training, getting criminal using guns off the streets for long periods of time, and nationwide laws regarding concealed-carry & permitting.

The federal government has already defined in law that they can legally restrict what guns you are allowed to own; this is why we cannot walk around the streets with machine guns (fully automatic weapons) and rocket grenade launchers. These restrictions are not deemed to be a violation of your second amendment rights -- which also means the federal government can certainly (and legally) extend the restrictions to magazine sizes, weapons types, bump stocks, and other gun related items --- which I believe at some point they will do.

There also needs to be measures taken to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally unfit. This character in the school shooting being one example. If you are expelled from a school for making threats then you should not legally be purchasing guns for some defined period of time until a professional who provides you with treatment pronounces you are mentally sound.

Generally I believe we need better screening when someone purchases a gun in the U.S. - so people with mental illness cannot get their hands on weapons. There are plenty of others that disagree with me about further gun regulations but I think the time has arrived to come together and address the issue.

IMO -- the following things are needed in the U.S.:

1) Require all private guns sales be registered with the government.
2) Background screening for all gun purchases.
3) Increase buyback programs to get guns off the streets.
4) Mandatory minimum of 10 years for a drug or robbery crime committed with a gun.
5) Destruction of all guns seized in crimes (unless it was stolen and the original owner is obvious).
6) Make bump stocks illegal.
7) Reduce allowed magazine sizes.
8) Get gun education back into schools (like when I was a kid).

Some of my previous thoughts on gun control on ET...

https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...-what-else-is-new.314795/page-14#post-4546369

https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...-most-moral-issues.316581/page-6#post-4575922

https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...-make-a-difference.315177/page-3#post-4548566

https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...-what-else-is-new.314795/page-15#post-4546557

https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...-what-else-is-new.314795/page-15#post-4546456

As far as vetting goes, Stability in the family and training sound good and I like the idea, however I’m concerned about a single parent’s gun ownership rights who has to live in a tough neighborhood.

 

[Slartibartfast]

https://schoolshooters.info/about-dr-langman

Potentially very good info.

http://www.wfmz.com/news/lehigh-val...d-in-shooters-home_20160929023249123/99773366

 

[maximumpossiblesuffering]

Take Uber

Only if rape kits are complementary!

 

[OddTrader]

The vegas shooter has his guns for a long, long time and planned his assault (supposedly) for a long time as well.



I think this is a very broad assumption and not something I'd be comfortable with. You can go to a gun show and buy an AR15 with no check necessary, did you know that? Remove that (and we should) and the buyer and seller move underground.



Are you suggesting that prior to being approved for purchasing a weapon, someone needs to complete a psyche eval? That would subject all those who follow the law to that, fine, and slow down the process, which I'm not against. But people who know they would fail would skip that and get a gun illegally through any number of a dozen different ways they can now. The problem, again, is the hundreds of millions of firearms on the street as of today.

No laws is perfect for all potentially exceptional cases. Isn't it?

We need to have a framework first, then improve it afterwards. Still never perfect! A real world!