Firearm Wanted
- Thread starter theboxer
- Start date
Except if you live in some parts of the US that still have Wild West laws the best thing you can do I would say is to just stay out of trouble, avoid any fight or use of a weapon.
I know that when you have weapons you tend consciously or not to WANT to use them, you sort of dream up all kinds of scenarios where you may have to use it. The fact is it's very unlikely you will ever have to use your weapon if you are not a LEO. So I think by all means know how to use it but maybe not to the point where it becomes a second nature and you shoot as a reflex.
This teacher who shot 3 rounds in a (I understand unarmed) individual went over the line. The guy sounds like a nut, shooting warning shots for 2 dogs running at him ! Unfortunately that's what may happen when you carry a handgun and are paranoid
beyond reason.
In the end the police and the govt are as much your enemy as the "bad guy". And the bad guy, if you knew where he comes from maybe you would understand , some people though are so evil you don't want to give them any chance.
Best way to avoid trouble is to keep a low profile, avoid being a target to start with. If you get into trouble with the cops, don't trust them, stay polite and keep your mouth shut. We law abiding citizens tend to trust the police but we really shoudn't .
Now I know all that is easier said than done.
I know that when you have weapons you tend consciously or not to WANT to use them, you sort of dream up all kinds of scenarios where you may have to use it. The fact is it's very unlikely you will ever have to use your weapon if you are not a LEO. So I think by all means know how to use it but maybe not to the point where it becomes a second nature and you shoot as a reflex.
This teacher who shot 3 rounds in a (I understand unarmed) individual went over the line. The guy sounds like a nut, shooting warning shots for 2 dogs running at him ! Unfortunately that's what may happen when you carry a handgun and are paranoid
beyond reason.
In the end the police and the govt are as much your enemy as the "bad guy". And the bad guy, if you knew where he comes from maybe you would understand , some people though are so evil you don't want to give them any chance.
Best way to avoid trouble is to keep a low profile, avoid being a target to start with. If you get into trouble with the cops, don't trust them, stay polite and keep your mouth shut. We law abiding citizens tend to trust the police but we really shoudn't .
Now I know all that is easier said than done.
You can get up to 10 years in prison, getting a gun for someone who cannot get one legally.
His request is very strange and suspicious[/size]
I dont think the teacher went over the line.
The reason why he had the 10 mm was to protect himself from wild animals. 10 mm pistols are usually used for pistol hunting and that was a good choice of weapon from protecting you against animals. There are some big animals out there like bears , dogs and mountain lions.
In any situation, you have to ask yourself what could have been done better. In this situation, the teacher could have retreated more away from the situation. He instead chose to stand his ground. For example, the dogs were coming at him and he drew his weapon, fired a few warning shots then he should have backed away. Not just backed away, but kept putting distance between the dogs, the owner and himself. He could have also shouted threats and fired additional warning shots at the attacker. Maybe even put a round into the attackers legs to stop the advance. The attacker wasnt armed and just needed to be disabled.
The attacker should not have charged a man with a drawn pistol. Whenever you are up against a man with a drawn pistol, whoever they maybe, then you do not want to advance towards them. Again, you want to move slowly and try to distance yourself from them with your hands in the air. The worst thing you can do is charge the man with a gun or shout hostile words at him.
I believe there were things that could have been done better, but it was a clear case of self defense. The dogs attacked the teacher, the man charged at the teacher shouting words and the teacher had to protect himself.
If you have a drawn pistol and someone is charging at you, then it can be reasonably assumed that the attacker is going to disarm you and then use your weapon against you.
As the below video demonstrates, its possible for someone to take that weapon away from you and use it against you.
However, at the end of the day, the best advice is to do whatever you can to avoid these situations. Never make attempts to stand your ground. Put distance in between yourself and strangers.
Understand that if you fire your pistol then you will be in court.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/S0Njv3NhVH0&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/S0Njv3NhVH0&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
The reason why he had the 10 mm was to protect himself from wild animals. 10 mm pistols are usually used for pistol hunting and that was a good choice of weapon from protecting you against animals. There are some big animals out there like bears , dogs and mountain lions.
In any situation, you have to ask yourself what could have been done better. In this situation, the teacher could have retreated more away from the situation. He instead chose to stand his ground. For example, the dogs were coming at him and he drew his weapon, fired a few warning shots then he should have backed away. Not just backed away, but kept putting distance between the dogs, the owner and himself. He could have also shouted threats and fired additional warning shots at the attacker. Maybe even put a round into the attackers legs to stop the advance. The attacker wasnt armed and just needed to be disabled.
The attacker should not have charged a man with a drawn pistol. Whenever you are up against a man with a drawn pistol, whoever they maybe, then you do not want to advance towards them. Again, you want to move slowly and try to distance yourself from them with your hands in the air. The worst thing you can do is charge the man with a gun or shout hostile words at him.
I believe there were things that could have been done better, but it was a clear case of self defense. The dogs attacked the teacher, the man charged at the teacher shouting words and the teacher had to protect himself.
If you have a drawn pistol and someone is charging at you, then it can be reasonably assumed that the attacker is going to disarm you and then use your weapon against you.
As the below video demonstrates, its possible for someone to take that weapon away from you and use it against you.
However, at the end of the day, the best advice is to do whatever you can to avoid these situations. Never make attempts to stand your ground. Put distance in between yourself and strangers.
Understand that if you fire your pistol then you will be in court.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/S0Njv3NhVH0&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/S0Njv3NhVH0&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
This is my last word in this thread.
Im convinced that owning a firearm in NYC will only lead to one thing **trouble.**
In any event, shotgun, rifle or pistol, you have to get a permit from the NYPD which in all likelihood they will find a reason not to give you one. Even if you buy one at a gunshow or between another person, then you have to get a permit. I dont know of anyone who has a firearm in NYC. The only ones I do know of, that I have read about, are celebrities and well known names.
Lets say you do get a firearm without a permit, then you run a great risk. In all likelihood, you are going to show the firearm to someone and then they will tip off the NYPD. Lets say you go to a gun range, they might want to see a permit once they see you have a NYC address on your license.
Basically, you wont be able to get one and then you will land yourself in trouble if you get one through a gun show or a private seller. If you dont get in trouble immediately, you will in the future and there is mandatory jail time that has to be served.
The point is moot. You cant get one in NYC. Try following the instructions below and tell us how it went. Im betting it will be at least 3-6 months before you see any type of response and then they will find any reason they can to deny you.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/permits/gun_licensing_faq.shtml
Im convinced that owning a firearm in NYC will only lead to one thing **trouble.**
In any event, shotgun, rifle or pistol, you have to get a permit from the NYPD which in all likelihood they will find a reason not to give you one. Even if you buy one at a gunshow or between another person, then you have to get a permit. I dont know of anyone who has a firearm in NYC. The only ones I do know of, that I have read about, are celebrities and well known names.
Lets say you do get a firearm without a permit, then you run a great risk. In all likelihood, you are going to show the firearm to someone and then they will tip off the NYPD. Lets say you go to a gun range, they might want to see a permit once they see you have a NYC address on your license.
Basically, you wont be able to get one and then you will land yourself in trouble if you get one through a gun show or a private seller. If you dont get in trouble immediately, you will in the future and there is mandatory jail time that has to be served.
The point is moot. You cant get one in NYC. Try following the instructions below and tell us how it went. Im betting it will be at least 3-6 months before you see any type of response and then they will find any reason they can to deny you.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/permits/gun_licensing_faq.shtml
I disagree the guy was wrong but again I can understand the situation he was in and could see myself into such bad situation.
Things can go very fast and that's why you have to mentally rehearse what to do in such situations.
first I am no firearm expert but firing into the ground is dangerous , you don't do that for 2 dogs. If they jump at you you can still draw and fire.
That is the big problem of carrying a gun. I can' carry a gun here but I am not sure I would want to anyway. It's cumbersome and it can get you in bad situation such as this one.
If you don't draw your weapon, you can get into a close combat where they grab your gun. Very dangerous. Once you draw your weapon , things get very dicey. You can be faced with someone who will get angry and will try to close the distance. He may have accomplices that will grab you. So you are very likely to fire even though there is no legal ground for it, he hasn't hurt you yet or attacked.
I personnaly carry a fixed blade knife because it's legal here, otherwise I would carry a collapsible baton (not legal !).
The knife is in many ways better than the gun for the street if guns are not widespread among criminals. And you still stand a chance against a gun, you don't have to draw the weapon if they get too close to you like you must with a gun.
Guns are good at home to scare burglars, I would use plastic bullets in a shotgun and keep a handgun in case.
This is just my 2cents maybe I am wrong since I have no experience of dealing with real threats .
Things can go very fast and that's why you have to mentally rehearse what to do in such situations.
first I am no firearm expert but firing into the ground is dangerous , you don't do that for 2 dogs. If they jump at you you can still draw and fire.
That is the big problem of carrying a gun. I can' carry a gun here but I am not sure I would want to anyway. It's cumbersome and it can get you in bad situation such as this one.
If you don't draw your weapon, you can get into a close combat where they grab your gun. Very dangerous. Once you draw your weapon , things get very dicey. You can be faced with someone who will get angry and will try to close the distance. He may have accomplices that will grab you. So you are very likely to fire even though there is no legal ground for it, he hasn't hurt you yet or attacked.
I personnaly carry a fixed blade knife because it's legal here, otherwise I would carry a collapsible baton (not legal !).
The knife is in many ways better than the gun for the street if guns are not widespread among criminals. And you still stand a chance against a gun, you don't have to draw the weapon if they get too close to you like you must with a gun.
Guns are good at home to scare burglars, I would use plastic bullets in a shotgun and keep a handgun in case.
This is just my 2cents maybe I am wrong since I have no experience of dealing with real threats .
When someone is pointing a pistol and another person advances on him in a hostile manner and there is reason to believe the person advancing will disarm the shooter, then there is a legal ground to fire.
However, this all has to be presented to a judge or a jury and you never know how they will react.
In most states, the person with the firearm has the duty to retreat. This means to avoid the situation and retreat as far as possible. I dont think the teacher retreated as far back as he could or took all the actions he could have to avoid the situation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_retreat
The original poster believes that they are doing the right thing by buying a firearm for protection, but I do not believe he truly knows the laws in New York or the surrounding states.
The only way he can use deadly force in his residence is if someone is going to set it on fire or is in the commission of a burglary and that this use of deadly force was reasonably needed to stop those actions.
Lets say he is outside of his residence and knows that a burglary is being committed. Then he could call the police. He would not be justified to enter the residence because there were other reasonable steps to take to stop the burglary.
Another scenario, he is locked in his bedroom and hears someone breaking and entering downstairs. His cellphone and residential phone are right by the bed and operational. He then would have to take reasonable actions such as dialing 911 and securing himself in his bedroom until the police arrive. He would not be justified if he then proceeded to clear the house by himself without calling the police because that was not a reasonable action to take.
Lets say someone with a bat is in his driveway vandalizing his car. He would not be justified in using deadly force.
When it comes to self-defense and the defense of your property, the laws in New York are especially weak. In New Jersey, if it can be proven that you could have run out of the house then deadly force would not be justified.
The original poster should seek some formalized courses in these areas and consider the different scenarios. The state and city of New York has made it virtually impossible to defend yourself and own a firearm of anykind.
Here are some formalized NRA courses that I should have posted previously:
http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/basictraining.asp#ppith
However, this all has to be presented to a judge or a jury and you never know how they will react.
In most states, the person with the firearm has the duty to retreat. This means to avoid the situation and retreat as far as possible. I dont think the teacher retreated as far back as he could or took all the actions he could have to avoid the situation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_retreat
The original poster believes that they are doing the right thing by buying a firearm for protection, but I do not believe he truly knows the laws in New York or the surrounding states.
The only way he can use deadly force in his residence is if someone is going to set it on fire or is in the commission of a burglary and that this use of deadly force was reasonably needed to stop those actions.
Lets say he is outside of his residence and knows that a burglary is being committed. Then he could call the police. He would not be justified to enter the residence because there were other reasonable steps to take to stop the burglary.
Another scenario, he is locked in his bedroom and hears someone breaking and entering downstairs. His cellphone and residential phone are right by the bed and operational. He then would have to take reasonable actions such as dialing 911 and securing himself in his bedroom until the police arrive. He would not be justified if he then proceeded to clear the house by himself without calling the police because that was not a reasonable action to take.
Lets say someone with a bat is in his driveway vandalizing his car. He would not be justified in using deadly force.
When it comes to self-defense and the defense of your property, the laws in New York are especially weak. In New Jersey, if it can be proven that you could have run out of the house then deadly force would not be justified.
The original poster should seek some formalized courses in these areas and consider the different scenarios. The state and city of New York has made it virtually impossible to defend yourself and own a firearm of anykind.
Here are some formalized NRA courses that I should have posted previously:
http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/basictraining.asp#ppith
great. There are many gun stores including those selling used guns. But here on elitetrader? Very very strange.
I've seen stranger 'round these parts.