Fire and Fury!

From Time, 2001:

"The rumor that raced through Washington last week of an atom bomb someplace in the city being readied for the next terrorist atrocity had a familiar ring to me.

In late July 1961, President Kennedy, just back from the grim Vienna summit with Khrushchev, asked me to dinner in Palm Beach. After daiquiris and Frank Sinatra records on the patio, his three guests and I gathered around the table for fish-in-a-bag, a White House recipe. Between lusty bites, Kennedy told the story of Khrushchev's anger over West Berlin, the island of freedom in the Soviet empire's East Germany. "We have a bustling communist enclave just four blocks from the White House," I noted, meaning the Soviet embassy. Kennedy paused, fork between plate and mouth, and said, "You know, they have an atom bomb on the third floor of the embassy." Aware of JFK's love of spy stories, I said something like, "Sure, why not?"

No, Kennedy continued, it was his understanding that the Soviets had brought the components of an atomic device into the building in inspection-free diplomatic pouches and assembled it in the upstairs attic. "If things get too bad and war is inevitable," he said, "they will set it off and that's the end of the White House and the rest of the city." I laughed. Still suspending his bite of fish, Kennedy said, "That's what I'm told. Do you know something that I don't?" No sign of mirth. The conversation moved on.

Five years ago I was lecturing in Staunton, Va., and retold the story. In the question session, a man in the audience rose and said, "You may not believe that story about the bomb in the attic, but I do. I worked for 25 years at the Defense Intelligence Agency, and that was our understanding." And now I can hear Kennedy asking again, "Do you know something I don't?"
"
 
Slartibartfast said:
From Time, 2001:

"The rumor that raced through Washington last week of an atom bomb someplace in the city being readied for the next terrorist atrocity had a familiar ring to me.

In late July 1961, President Kennedy, just back from the grim Vienna summit with Khrushchev, asked me to dinner in Palm Beach. After daiquiris and Frank Sinatra records on the patio, his three guests and I gathered around the table for fish-in-a-bag, a White House recipe. Between lusty bites, Kennedy told the story of Khrushchev's anger over West Berlin, the island of freedom in the Soviet empire's East Germany. "We have a bustling communist enclave just four blocks from the White House," I noted, meaning the Soviet embassy. Kennedy paused, fork between plate and mouth, and said, "You know, they have an atom bomb on the third floor of the embassy." Aware of JFK's love of spy stories, I said something like, "Sure, why not?"

No, Kennedy continued, it was his understanding that the Soviets had brought the components of an atomic device into the building in inspection-free diplomatic pouches and assembled it in the upstairs attic. "If things get too bad and war is inevitable," he said, "they will set it off and that's the end of the White House and the rest of the city." I laughed. Still suspending his bite of fish, Kennedy said, "That's what I'm told. Do you know something that I don't?" No sign of mirth. The conversation moved on.

Five years ago I was lecturing in Staunton, Va., and retold the story. In the question session, a man in the audience rose and said, "You may not believe that story about the bomb in the attic, but I do. I worked for 25 years at the Defense Intelligence Agency, and that was our understanding." And now I can hear Kennedy asking again, "Do you know something I don't?"
"
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Yup. The problem- among a hundred others- with people tuning into this north korean nuke discussion is that the korean situation is all focused on advanced nuke weaponry and the advanced missiles needed to deliver it and the advanced missiles that would be needed to intercept. It is all mixed in with discussion about "how far away they are." That's all fine and appropriate for the korean discussion.

However, many intelligence officials say the more probably threat from the nuclear weapons is from dirty bombs- so called- ie. low technology mix of radioactive nuclear waste/conventional technology where the bomb kills from radiation not explosion-mostly. The idea being that -for example- Iran is not stupid enough to outright nuke Israel and then be destroyed itself. Instead they would just disseminate dirty bombs to their wackjob affiliates- hezbollah, hamas, etc- which they could easily transport and touch off in Tel Aviv, New York City etc. So Iran, North Korea, Pakistani snakes etc could do the deed without it being traced back to them.

That's a long winded way of saying that, especially when thinking about nuclear dirty bombs, all those low-level cloak and dagger scenarios about terrorists coming to town with suitcases and doing dark things are EXTREMELY DOABLE. Add Russia and China to that list. Or venezuela needing cash and on and on and on.
 
TreeFrogTrader said:
Yup. The problem- among a hundred others- with people tuning into this north korean nuke discussion is that the korean situation is all focused on advanced nuke weaponry and the advanced missiles needed to deliver it and the advanced missiles that would be needed to intercept. It is all mixed in with discussion about "how far away they are." That's all fine and appropriate for the korean discussion.

However, many intelligence officials say the more probably threat from the nuclear weapons is from dirty bombs- so called- ie. low technology mix of radioactive nuclear waste/conventional technology where the bomb kills from radiation not explosion-mostly. The idea being that -for example- Iran is not stupid enough to outright nuke Israel and then be destroyed itself. Instead they would just disseminate dirty bombs to their wackjob affiliates- hezbollah, hamas, etc- which they could easily transport and touch off in Tel Aviv, New York City etc. So Iran, North Korea, Pakistani snakes etc could do the deed without it being traced back to them.

That's a long winded way of saying that, especially when thinking about nuclear dirty bombs, all those low-level cloak and dagger scenarios about terrorists coming to town with suitcases and doing dark things are EXTREMELY DOABLE. Add Russia and China to that list. Or venezuela needing cash and on and on and on.
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I always thought the DoD had ways to detect radiation coming from nukes from satelites. Maybe I watched too many movies.

But that said, I think NK talking about nuking Guam is a distraction. They've hinted strongly in their propaganda videos that San Francisco is the real target. I imagine more specifically they would want to hit silicon valley hoping to take out social media giants like facebook and google in 1 hit just to stop how fast we communicate with each other.
 
peilthetraveler said:
I always thought the DoD had ways to detect radiation coming from nukes from satelites. Maybe I watched too many movies.

But that said, I think NK talking about nuking Guam is a distraction. They've hinted strongly in their propaganda videos that San Francisco is the real target. I imagine more specifically they would want to hit silicon valley hoping to take out social media giants like facebook and google in 1 hit just to stop how fast we communicate with each other.
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Oh man, "take out facebook." Say it ain't so. The lefties will all want to do a pre-emptive strike.

You what they say " a conservative is a liberal who was mugged the night before." There are a couple posters here who have indicated that they would be okay with seeing all the southern states in the US wiped out but- Facebook- man, that would be a bridge too far. Half of them would commit hari-kari anyway if Dear Leader unfriended them.
 
Well all I know is I want the White house recipe for "fish-in-a-bag" since reading that. http://www.jamieoliver.com/recipes/fish-recipes/fish-in-a-bag/ Have to make due with Jamie's one this weekend.

China has half it's money in the US, so does Putin (or in Bitcoins aka Puticoins?). They have dogs in this fight and no desire to disrupt things so they will weigh in. However, Kim can make a mistake and Trump certainly can, as can the military on both sides. This is why through the cold war we strenuously avoided excessive contact between forces. Mistakes.

There will be no nuclear tipped missile but there could be an aforementioned bomb/dirty bomb on a dead-man's switch.

So it is political theatrics, not problem solving and the public is being played again while being put in real risk.

Regrettably you cannot easily detect radiation like in the movies if shielded, as shielding does actually shield (ok, if they spread yellow-cake out as lawn fertilizer, maybe). That is part of the smoke and mirrors. Wikipedia: "To reduce typical gamma rays by a factor of a billion, thicknesses of shield need to be about 13.8 feet of water, about 6.6 feet of concrete, or about 1.3 feet of lead. "

1.3 feet of lead, or less of say osmium which is twice a dense. Lead is fine though.
 
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Slartibartfast said:
Well all I know is I want the White house recipe for "fish-in-a-bag" since reading that. http://www.jamieoliver.com/recipes/fish-recipes/fish-in-a-bag/ Have to make due with Jamie's one this weekend.

China has half it's money in the US, so does Putin (or in Bitcoins aka Puticoins?). They have dogs in this fight and no desire to disrupt things so they will weigh in. However, Kim can make a mistake and Trump certainly can, as can the military on both sides. This is why through the cold war we strenuously avoided excessive contact between forces. Mistakes.

There will be no nuclear tipped missile but there could be an aforementioned bomb/dirty bomb on a dead-man's switch.

So it is political theatrics, not problem solving and the public is being played again while being put in real risk.

Regrettably you cannot easily detect radiation like in the movies if shielded, as shielding does actually shield (ok, if they spread yellow-cake out as lawn fertilizer, maybe). That is part of the smoke and mirrors. Wikipedia: "To reduce typical gamma rays by a factor of a billion, thicknesses of shield need to be about 13.8 feet of water, about 6.6 feet of concrete, or about 1.3 feet of lead. "

1.3 feet of lead, or less of say osmium which is twice a dense. Lead is fine though.
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Yup, and admittedly most of these issues are about or involve the united states, but not all of them are- in the beginning anyway. China has scary beefs with Japan and Russia. Iran with Israel and so on which have nuclear implications.

I remember a long time ago - I think it was after Gorbachov left power- someone interviewed him and asked him if the Soviets ever seriously considered using nuclear power against the United States. He said "no, but we did seriously consider using it against China." Whoaaaaaaa! Other than that howz your day going in Bejing?
 
TreeFrogTrader said:
So Iran, North Korea, Pakistani snakes etc could do the deed without it being traced back to them.
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Nuclear material can be traced back to its source.If Iran, North Korea, or Pakistan gave nuclear material to terrorists and they used it against The US they would be held responsible.
 
vanzandt said:
Who's gonna run the tests on it?:wtf:
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They have nuclear forensic scientists.I'm sure China,Russia,NK , Pakistan etc have people in their government that would love to give nuclear materiel to terrorists to use against The US but they know it would come back to them.
 
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