Fatal shooting in Denver, probably self defense

WeToddDid2 said:
How do you know it was "totally unprovoked assault"?

From the pictures that you posted, I don't see that series of events with any reasonable certainty.
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At this point there are enough videos and pictures posted to the internet from multiple media sources to conclude the security guard endured an unprovoked assault. Do a search if you are interested.

This is probably the most covered shooting of 2020 with over 10 media outlets either taking video or photos while the event occurred.

Certainly there is no lack of video/photo evidence for A DA or grand jury to make an indictment decision in this situation.
 
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gwb-trading said:
At this point there are enough videos and pictures posted to the internet from multiple media sources to conclude the security guard endured an unprovoked assault. Do a search if you are interested.

This is probably the most covered shooting of 2020 with over 10 media outlets either taking video or photos while the event occurred.
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I can't find any video of it that answers my questions or changes my opinion.

The security guard pushed him and then the guy that got shot hit back according to the photos. I can't find any video that illustrates otherwise.

Below still looks like the correct scenario.
  1. The security guard pushed the guy that got shot.
  2. The guy that got shot then hit the security guard.
  3. The security guard drew his weapon.
  4. The guy that got shot pepper sprayed him.
  5. The security guard shot him.
 
WeToddDid2 said:
I can't find any video of it that answers my questions or changes my opinion.

Look at the picture that I posted.

The security guard pushed him and then the guy that got shot hit back according to the photos. I can't find any video that illustrates otherwise.

Below still looks like the correct scenario.
  1. The security guard pushed the guy that got shot.
  2. The guy that got shot then hit the security guard.
  3. The security guard drew his weapon.
  4. The guy that got shot pepper sprayed him.
  5. The security guard shot him.
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Your step 1 is incorrect. The videos and photos show the security guard pointing and not hitting the right-wing protestor when the protestor hit the security guard in the face. Basically the security guard was most likely telling the guy to back off and may have been trying to hold off the charge of the right-wing protestor. If I am holding up my hand and you charge into it; I am not assaulting you.

I will also note your sequence of other events is also incorrect. The security guard only reached for his weapon when he was already being sprayed as far as I can tell in picture sequences. The can was up and pointing at him with the beginning of an orange stream while he was starting to pull out his gun. This is very obvious.

Page 3 of this thread has a link to hundreds of photos from Denver Post photographer Helen Robinson including events leading up to and after — many taken milliseconds apart.
 
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gwb-trading said:
Your step 1 is incorrect. The videos and photos show the security guard pointing and not hitting the right-wing protestor when the protestor hit the security guard in the face. Basically the security guard was most likely telling the guy to back off and may have been trying to hold off the charge of the right-wing protestor. If I am holding up my hand and you charge into it; I am not assaulting you.

I will also note your sequence of other events is also incorrect. The security guard only reached for his weapon when he was already being sprayed as far as I can tell in picture sequences. The can was up and pointing at him with the beginning of an orange stream while he was starting to pull out his gun. This is very obvious.

Page 3 of this thread has a link to hundreds of photos from Denver Post photographer Helen Robinson including events leading up to and after — many taken milliseconds apart.
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My step #1 is correct. There is a clear photo of it. The last 3 digits on the photo I am talking about is 699. The number of the photo when the protester's hand first made contact with the security guard ends with 716.

I would post the photo but gettyimages is very strict with respect to use restrictions.

Steps with the pictures below:

1.The security guard pushed protester.
(1st row, 1st column)
https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/helen-h.-richardson?family=editorial&page=3&phrase=helen h. richardson&sort=newest

2. Protester then hit the security guard.
(last row, middle column)
https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/helen-h.-richardson?family=editorial&page=2&phrase=helen h. richardson&sort=newest

3. The security guard drew his weapon. In this pic, you can see the security guards shirt is pulled up most likely revealing his gun and this is before any spray.
(next to last row, left column)
https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/helen-h.-richardson?family=editorial&page=2&phrase=helen h. richardson&sort=newest
 
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WeToddDid2 said:
My step #1 is correct. There is a clear photo of it. The last 3 digits on the photo I am talking about is 699. The number of the photo when the protester's hand first made contact with the security guard ends with 716.

I would post the photo but gettyimages is very strict with respect to use restrictions.

Steps with the pictures below:
  1. The security guard pushed protester. (1st row, 1st column)
https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/helen-h.-richardson?family=editorial&page=3&phrase=helen h. richardson&sort=newest

2. Protester then hit the security guard. (last row, middle column)
https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/helen-h.-richardson?family=editorial&page=2&phrase=helen h. richardson&sort=newest

3. The security guard drew his weapon. (next to last row, left column)
https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/helen-h.-richardson?family=editorial&page=2&phrase=helen h. richardson&sort=newest
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The earlier “Steps” play a minor role, but do provide support of self defense for the security guard. The key is the dangerous escalation by the attacker with his decision to use a substance known or not known to have the ability to impair the victim. Further, what was the attacker’s intent after he impaired the security guard? The attacker punched the security guard earlier. The security officer has the right to protect himself and had the obligation to protect the ones who hired him. It would have been insubordinate of the security guard to allow himself to risk becoming impaired. Further, the security guard was at the scene in performance of his job, probably not there as a protester with a vandetta to fulfill like it may have been in the attacker’s case.

In my mind, the above incident is a clear example of self defense.
 
BeautifulStranger said:
The earlier “Steps” play a minor role, but do provide support of self defense for the security guard. The key is the dangerous escalation by the attacker with his decision to use a substance known or not known to have the ability to impair the victim. Further, what was the attacker’s intent after he impaired the security guard? The attacker punched the security guard earlier. The security officer has the right to protect himself and had the obligation to protect the ones who hired him. It would have been insubordinate of the security guard to allow himself to risk becoming impaired. Further, the security guard was at the scene in performance of his job, probably not there as a protester with a vandetta to fulfill like it may have been in the attacker’s case.

In my mind, the above incident is a clear example of self defense.
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I do not think that it is clear. The sequence of events matter. Did the protester even know that the guy was a security guard?
BeautifulStranger said:
Further, what was the attacker’s intent after he impaired the security guard?
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I think it was the protester's intent was to protect himself after a guy revealed a gun. It looks as though the protester was acting is self defense.

Again, below is the sequence that I see from the photos that @gwb-trading posted:
  1. security guard pushes protester
  2. protester reacts by slapping security guard
  3. security guard goes for gun
  4. protester starts spraying after he sees the gun
  5. security guards shoots protester
I could be wrong, but, that looks like the sequence of events from the photos.
 
WeToddDid2 said:
I do not think that it is clear. The sequence of events matter. Did the protester even know that the guy was a security guard?

I think it was the protester's intent was to protect himself after a guy revealed a gun. It looks as though the protester was acting is self defense.

Again, below is the sequence that I see from the photos that @gwb-trading posted:
  1. security guard pushes protester
  2. protester reacts by slapping security guard
  3. security guard goes for gun
  4. protester starts spraying after he sees the gun
  5. security guards shoots protester
I could be wrong, but, that looks like the sequence of events from the photos.
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I would suspect most people having a gun pointed at them would tend to de-escalate proto haste. Not always of course, but one of the pictures did show the protester actively operating his weapon and there is a full stream of pepperspray travelling from its dispenser all the way to the guard, implying there was at least a split second before the attacker was fired upon.

Edit: One fly in the ointment would be if the attacker did not reasonably know the security guard was armed.
 
BeautifulStranger said:
.....

Edit: One fly in the ointment would be if the attacker did not reasonably know the security guard was armed.
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That's what I think happen or the attacker with the bear spray saw the person was armed and then thought in error that he could bear spray him in the eyes before he could pull out his gun.

Sort'uv like one of those Clint Eastwood wild wild west gunfights...

Armed Security = Clint

Person with bear spray = Bandits

Police = Nearby Sheriff


Regardless, although the security guard pushes the guy in the photo. We don't know what started or cause the security guard to try to push away the protester...

Were there verbal threats to the media or security...resulting in the security guard trying to push away the protester making threats ?

We just don't know...there's no video in the photos...just photographs.

wrbtrader
 
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