Falcons' Vick indicted by grand jury in dogfighting probe

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

"Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypian, Brad Johnson and Doug Williams."

Multiple rings?

LMAO.

Did Elway's 2 rings make a difference in his greatness?

Where would Buffalo's Jim Kelly rate on the list of great quarterbacks if he had won several Super Bowl rings?

Malone and Barkley choked away their chance, and Marino has the personal stats, but so did Fouts. Neither got it done when it mattered.

Multiple rings are not over-rated for a great talent who leads the team to a championship. It makes a difference in the big picture of sports.

Fran Tarkenton? Great player, but considered as great as Bart Star?

Bucheluer and Salley were superstars?

Again, if you don't know the difference between great talent, and a champion, what can I say?

If A-Rod doesn't get a ring, he too will go down as great player, who couldn't will the team to a championship.

Shoot, Seattle had A-Rod, Randy Johnson, and Griffey in his prime, and they got nada.

Quote from TM_Direct:

...and Ted williams, Ernie banks, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Dan Marino, .....I think that is an over rated stat anyway...Hell...Jed bucheluer and John Salley each have like 4 rings each.....but i don' t think they are in the caliber of the above....and Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypian, Brad Johnson and Doug Williams won Superbowls....but they are all pretty much scrubs...I see your point but i think that stat is a little out dated.

 

[topdown]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

"Marino has the personal stats, but so did Fouts. Neither got it done when it mattered.

Multiple rings are not over-rated for a great talent who leads the team to a championship. It makes a difference in the big picture of sports.

Fran Tarkenton? Great player, but considered as great as Bart Star?

Absolutely agree. Individual passing stats are an oxymoron in the NFL. The records are held by poor teams who had no choice but to pass. No defense, no running game, down by 20, what do you do? - Throw it... all the time. Great athletes? Sure. Great teams, no way. Had they been on great teams would they have the same stats? Almost assurdly not.

That said, I do believe that multiple SB rings is a great measurement of the LEADERSHIP that is required of a truly great quarterback.

Even Elway - great, absolutely, but the vast majority of his yards came on lousy teams. Only until the Broncs got a defense and found some running did the rings come.

 

[Enfinity]

Ease up on Elway, he earned everything...or at least as much as any of them have. I was a Broncos fan (obviously) and it takes a complete team to win a super bowl. As far as your stats argument goes, if all it takes is a bad team to put up big stats there should be plenty of celebrity qb's out there by that logic.

Elway was, and is, the definition of a competitive QB. The QB most like him today is Brady. Always showing up, always "laying it on the line," leading the team through wins AND losses to the big show...AND winning it!



PS - Elway is not so good at the investing game. He took Autonation stock when he and his partner sold the dealerships to Huizenga...his partner took the cash. Anyone remember MVP.com???

Quote from topdown:

Absolutely agree. Individual passing stats are an oxymoron in the NFL. The records are held by poor teams who had no choice but to pass. No defense, no running game, down by 20, what do you do? - Throw it... all the time. Great athletes? Sure. Great teams, no way. Had they been on great teams would they have the same stats? Almost assurdly not.

That said, I do believe that multiple SB rings is a great measurement of the LEADERSHIP that is required of a truly great quarterback.

Even Elway - great, absolutely, but the vast majority of his yards came on lousy teams. Only until the Broncs got a defense and found some running did the rings come.

 

[topdown]

Quote from Enfinity:

Ease up on Elway, he earned everything...or at least as much as any of them have. I was a Broncos fan (obviously) and it takes a complete team to win a super bowl.

Chill Enfinity - I agree Elway deserves everything he has received. A great QB, no doubt. However, without the 2 rings earned late in his career, I don't think I would feel the same. For example, I don't think Marino was nearly the quality QB that he is given credit for. His teams SUCKED. If they didn't have to throw, he wouldn't have near the yards. Would Fouts have the stats he has without Air Coryell, doubtful.

My point is simply that passing stats in the NFL, (hell all offensive stats for that matter) are skewed by the overall team. I'm a Cowboys fan - Aikman never was a top passer as far as yards go, but choose a better post season winner with leadership and guts - don't care what you say he got it done. Hell, Emmitt Smith - was he as talented as Barry Sanders, Walter Peyton - Hell no. But with our D and O line, he shined regardless.

Again, bottom line, there are almost always 2 sides to offensive stats in the NFL.

 

[topdown]

But I apologize for changing the nature of this thread. Back on topic.

Vick is now a terrorist?:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,293268,00.html

Be sure to click on the PDF, hilarious.

 

[brownsfan019]

I hope Elway falls off a cliff one day while driving his Aston Martin around a slippery Denver mountain slope.





... just playin around. You have to understand the hatred Browns fans have for that bucked teeth ass. He literally took down some of the best Browns teams we had in the 80's. We haven't had a decent team since then. Oh, the pain.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

You are playing in the Super Bowl, 4th quarter and you need a 90 yard drive for the winning score.

Who do you pick as QB out of these Hall of Famers?

Dan Marino?
Jim Kelly?
Dan Fouts?
Fran Tarkenton?
Joe Montanna?
Tom Brady?
Brett Favre?
John Elway?

The QB with the stats, or the winner of
Championship games...

Same question for hoops, game 7. Choose from the following Hall of Famers...

Who do you want at power forward in game 7?

Tim Duncan?
Karl Malone?

How about the other forward?

Larry Bird?
Charles Barkley?

Center?

Patrick Ewing?
Hakeem Olajuwan?

Shooting guard?

Michael Jordan?
Dominique Wilkins?

Point guard?

Magic Johnson?
John Stockton?

 

[Trader5287]

Quote from brownsfan019:

I hope Elway falls off a cliff one day while driving his Aston Martin around a slippery Denver mountain slope.





... just playin around. You have to understand the hatred Browns fans have for that bucked teeth ass. He literally took down some of the best Browns teams we had in the 80's. We haven't had a decent team since then. Oh, the pain.

Pats guy here. I hated them too. We would go every year - all we had was the crybaby Bledsoe then -sit front row behind their bench. Elway would turn around and snicker at us. The worst though was Shannon Sharp - he would mercilessly tease the fans. Plus he had the goods too - he was one of the great natural athletes. He could do everything.

 

[brownsfan019]

zzzzzzzz -

For QB, I take Montana every day, all day in his prime.

 

[TM_Direct]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

You are playing in the Super Bowl, 4th quarter and you need a 90 yard drive for the winning score.

Who do you pick as QB out of these Hall of Famers?

Dan Marino?
Jim Kelly?
Dan Fouts?
Fran Tarkenton?
Joe Montanna?
Tom Brady?
Brett Favre?
John Elway?

The QB with the stats, or the winner of
Championship games...

Same question for hoops, game 7. Choose from the following Hall of Famers...

Who do you want at power forward in game 7?

Tim Duncan?
Karl Malone?

How about the other forward?

Larry Bird?
Charles Barkley?

Center?

Patrick Ewing?
Hakeem Olajuwan?

Shooting guard?

Michael Jordan?
Dominique Wilkins?

Point guard?

Magic Johnson?
John Stockton?

Whats amazing to me is the short memory people have.....I noticed how Peyton Manning isn't;t on that list anymore....Kelly? Had the field goal kicker (norwood) made the short kick...kelly is now one of the greatest?
Olajuwan???? Great no doubt...but his titles came when MJ walked away IN HIS PRIME to play baseball...
Dominique didn't;t play shooting guard...he was a small forward...

The Barkley Bird comparison is interesting....in his Prime, Bird played along side two of the 50 greatest of all time in Parrish and McHalle...Not to mention DJ who may have been the best Defensive PG of his generation...Barkley played with who in Philly??? quick...name another player from those teams...In phoenix he had KJ...and I think Dan Marjle??? Barkley couldn't shoot like Bird but Bird couldn't dominate the low post and rebound like barkley...Id still give the edge to bird...but he had a LOT of help.