Exp traders ... 5 Fatal Flaws of trading

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Quote from deadbroke:

Well put. Thanks.

But take this a bit further ...

if these 5 commonsense rules are ALL there is to it and that even a person of av Int. would understand them easily, then why is the trader failure rate so high? Obvious answer would be, "traders break these rules" ...

but what if these rules are a total crock to begin with?

I'm leaning in this direction because the author (amiable enough fellow) who wrote the rules is himself an analyst, not a trader. This means that he has opted to receive a salary rather than trade for himself. If these rules are so hot and he wrote them but still can't trade, then they're not worth a damn IMHO.

There's got to be something else that's still missing ....

Quote from TraderZones:

There is. Few traders will come up with longterm, highly successful outperformance edges. I am talking positive expectancy, not psychology and feel good.

Trading is negative sum (a lot of costs are taken out of the pot). And most of those who do have an edge will blow up with money management problems.

Rules do not help a nonprofitable trader. Think someone who goes to the casino and plays roulette. Longterm, everyone loses except the casino. And of course, the tax authorities

+2

This is the reason so many "educate" but not trade. They educate these "rules" and the gullible newbies hand over their money like that!
 
Quote from deadbroke:

Well put. Thanks.

But take this a bit further ...

if these 5 commonsense rules are ALL there is to it and that even a person of av Int. would understand them easily, then why is the trader failure rate so high? Obvious answer would be, "traders break these rules" ...

but what if these rules are a total crock to begin with?

I'm leaning in this direction because the author (amiable enough fellow) who wrote the rules is himself an analyst, not a trader. This means that he has opted to receive a salary rather than trade for himself. If these rules are so hot and he wrote them but still can't trade, then they're not worth a damn IMHO.

There's got to be something else that's still missing ....

Those commensense rules are NOT all there is to it.

Here's a football analogy...I remember the first time I played high school football as a wide receiver. My football coach said remember 3 things...run your route, catch the ball and run to the other goal line.

Of course that's not all there is to it to be a good wide reciever but the coach was trying to keep it simple and that's ok in the beginning or for any newbie wide receiver. :D

Therefore the main reason why there's a high failure rate amongst traders is a combination of a lot of reasons and each trader has more problems with a few in comparison to another trader that has failed.

* Bad Money Management

* Bad Discipline

* Poor Trade Method

* Poor Capitalization

* Inadequate Trade Workstation

* Inadequate Broker Platform for the trading style or method

* Poor Stress Management

* Poor mental and physical health

* Failure to treat trading like a business

* Poor Team Collaboration

* Lacking in Market Experience (understanding the markets) will prevent having the ability to adapt

-----------------

I can name a dozen more reasons but you get the point. Further, I've met a few guys with a good trade method fail miserably because they didn't have any of the above critical pieces.

Simply, everything works together and if something important is missing...there's no balance in the trading plan to be profitable. So yeah...there's A LOT MORE to it than what the author mentioned but he probably only mentioned the stuff that was important to him of stuff he had the most problems with and assumed others may have the same.

Sit down and make your own rules and not just the ones you're having problems with and then develop a written trading plan with all those "commonsense" rules...

Should take a few years to get everything working (balanced) into something successful even though most traders will go belly up prior to reaching that point of balance. That's the main reason why this isn't a long career for most traders because the FAIL at keeping all those pieces working together.

Mark
 
Quote from marketwizards:

bad investment/trading advice is like bad LSD bad trip.

fry your brains with bad training.
Where the f**k do your moronic babblings come from? Go back down the wormhole you came from, newbie imbecile.

LOL. Ill educated idiots just keep washing up at the ET shoreline all the time.:cool:
 
Quote from NihabaAshi:

Those commensense rules are NOT all there is to it.

Here's a football analogy...I remember the first time I played high school football as a wide receiver. My football coach said remember 3 things...run your route, catch the ball and run to the other goal line.

Of course that's not all there is to it to be a good wide reciever but the coach was trying to keep it simple and that's ok in the beginning or for any newbie wide receiver. :D

Therefore the main reason why there's a high failure rate amongst traders is a combination of a lot of reasons and each trader has more problems with a few in comparison to another trader that has failed.

* Bad Money Management

* Bad Discipline

* Poor Trade Method

* Poor Capitalization

* Inadequate Trade Workstation

* Inadequate Broker Platform for the trading style or method

* Poor Stress Management

* Poor mental and physical health

* Failure to treat trading like a business

* Poor Team Collaboration

* Lacking in Market Experience (understanding the markets) will prevent having the ability to adapt

-----------------

I can name a dozen more reasons but you get the point. Further, I've met a few guys with a good trade method fail miserably because they didn't have any of the above critical pieces.

Simply, everything works together and if something important is missing...there's no balance in the trading plan to be profitable. So yeah...there's A LOT MORE to it than what the author mentioned but he probably only mentioned the stuff that was important to him of stuff he had the most problems with and assumed others may have the same.

Sit down and make your own rules and not just the ones you're having problems with and then develop a written trading plan with all those "commonsense" rules...

Should take a few years to get everything working (balanced) into something successful even though most traders will go belly up prior to reaching that point of balance. That's the main reason why this isn't a long career for most traders because the FAIL at keeping all those pieces working together.

Mark


Thanks. I think this pulls things together nicely!
 
The numero uno fatal flaw of trading is when you take a position against a professional, which happens most of the times. I guess not many talk about that, or dare to talk.
 
Quote from deadbroke:

Thanks TZ.

Lot of meat in your post, so trying to understand ..... Can you give me just one easy to understand example of an outperformance edge?


Well, for example, people used to look for the January effect - where the stock market supposedly goes up in early January. Or learning price action to understand how prices move. Or those who play around with patterns or indicators, and find something they believe makes more money than it loses.

& ..... isn't "money-management" simply = risk per trade, quantifiable as $200, $1,000 etc., that a fellow can easily understand, or is there more to this oft bandied phrase (that has given me a headache)?

money management is probably the second most important thing after finding an edge. It includes stop losses, profit targets, diversification, amount of leverage, and many other things where you control your amount and exposure. Some probably overlaps with portfolio management, etc. Getting in/out with regard to announcements might be an example. You will find a number of definitions, each person having their own...
 
Quote from ronblack:

The numero uno fatal flaw of trading is when you take a position against a professional, which happens most of the times. I guess not many talk about that, or dare to talk.

how do you avoid trading against a professional
 
Quote from jorgez:

how do you avoid trading against a professional


If you look at ES trades of 10 contracts or more per transaction, it represents about 75% of all volume.

If you look at ES trades of 100 contracts or more per transaction, it represents about 40% of all volume. (Even though it's only about 2% of total trades, it accounts for a huge chunk of the volume.)

Conversely, single lot transactions represent 3% of the total daily ES volume, and trades of 5 contracts or less represent less than 10% percent of all volume.

If you put these facts together, that makes it virtually impossible for the retail trader NOT be trading against a professional most of the time when trading the ES.

According to the person I spoke to at the CME, the vast majority of ES trading volume is professionals trading against other professionals.
 
Quote from tomdavis:

If you look at ES trades of 10 contracts or more per transaction, it represents about 75% of all volume.

If you look at ES trades of 100 contracts or more per transaction, it represents about 40% of all volume. (Even though it's only about 2% of total trades, it accounts for a huge chunk of the volume.)

Conversely, single lot transactions represent 3% of the total daily ES volume, and trades of 5 contracts or less represent less than 10% percent of all volume.

If you put these facts together, that makes it virtually impossible for the retail trader NOT be trading against a professional most of the time when trading the ES.

According to the person I spoke to at the CME, the vast majority of ES trading volume is professionals trading against other professionals.

In that case, does it mean that every time you trade ES, you are highly likely betting against the professional and that there is no way you can tell in the ES arena?
 
Quote from Pension_Admin:

In that case, does it mean that every time you trade ES, you are highly likely betting against the professional and that there is no way you can tell in the ES arena?

Just considering that 75% of the volume comes from 10-lots or higher, that makes it highly likely that there's a professional on at least one side of any given trade, and perhaps both sides. [Note: My data is several years old, but I trade this market every day and there's no doubt in my mind that professionals move these markets, not the retail traders.]

I watch volume run-ups at key times, and clearly that has to be an influx of professionals because they're the only ones who can drive the market in a major way. So, I guess the answer to your question is yes; by watching volume you can get a feel for the level of professional activity. But you also have to keep in mind that the pros are very good at disguising orders, breaking them up and feeding them in smaller chunks, etc. Watching the volume data is not a perfect solution, but there's good information to be found on the charts if you know what you're looking for. You still can't get around the fact that most of the volume comes from big players.
 
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