Evil Doers blow up university students

Originally posted by daniel_m
I asked you to provide some support for such an argument and you come back with "I suggest you give it a little more thought".
I guess you haven't kept up with the news. Save some time and just take the easy way... read the other posts here.

Come on man, that is just stupid. How many generals actually fight a war "on the front line"? There's always going to have to be someone to survey the battlefield and make strategic decisions.
You keep managing to call me "stupid" and "delusional". I should probably just forget about even trying to have any kind of dialogue with you. But I will give this one more try. You need to see that to me, these terrorists are not exactly your West Point graduates. They are at the very best, and I hate to disgrace the word, "revolutionaries". And yeah, revolutionaries get their hands dirty, because they are fighting for their ideals. Or at least they are in theory. What kind of ideals do Bin Laden and Arafat hold? They have played their hands not only from the bottom of the deck, but have changed their objectives and even their allies to fit the moment. Remember that Bin Laden was backed and trained by the CIA.
Ever hear of Che Guavara? Fidel Castro? George Washington?

I find the idea that terrorism is enacted for economic gain pretty weak. How exactly does Saddam or Arafat gain (economically)from terrorism? (I'm not simply being argumentative here, I really would like to understand.) What's more, as I have already said, the evidence simply suggests that more likely motives for acts of terror (in the Middle East) are political and religious goals.
Again, read the other posts and the links here.

My only bone of contention (and what got me involved in this thread) is your assertion that no Arabs were "forced" to leave Israel.
OK...they were politely asked. But they were asked NOT by the Israelis...they were asked (told) by the arab extremists to leave Israel, so they would not get caught in the annihilation that was planned for the jews. The plan was to "drive Israel into the sea", and then just stroll right back in and go on. They gambled and lost. This is not my opinion. This is historical fact. Yes, some of the arabs living in what was by then Israel may have been relocated for reasons related to the practicalities of war, but so were jews and Christians. Ever hear of any Christian terrorists trying to blow up Israel for being displaced (temporarily) 54 years ago?

Furthermore, any discussion about the rights of Arabs to live in (or return to, as you put it) Israel inevitably gets bogged down in arguments over the moral rectitude of Zionism. From there it's a quick descent into a death spiral of "I am right, you are wrong".
I think you read me wrong. I don't think either side is right. I think that Jerusalem should be an independent city-state. I think it is WRONG for Israel to have control of Jerusalem. I feel this way strictly because Israel is a theocracy, and I don't think that is an appropriate government for a place that holds such importance for so many diverse cultures and religions. I don't see where any one group has more claim than another. Because as you imply, this is an irresolvable issue.

You say "return to. as you put it"...what does that mean? You make it sound like I am saying something that is my opinion?!?
Is the "right of return" not THE issue that sabotaged the Camp David Accord?
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Originally posted by Josh_B
Jews have better access to our politicians here. And they can buy..err.. influence our international policy to the extreme.

What your post fails to reflect is the strings attached to those foreign aid packages to Israel. Its not a free giveaway. Almost all is defense related and it requires that Israel spend an overwhelming majority of the aid on US produced arms. The aid package is in effect a taxpayer sponsered stimulus to our own arms industry.

Egypt gets a significant US foreign aid package as well.
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Originally posted by dgabriel
Originally posted by Josh_B


Egypt gets a significant US foreign aid package as well.
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yup, as does every other nation in the middle east except Iraq. But they got so much for so long they had the opportunity to save their pennies and nickles and to develop unimaginablely horrible weapons with the intent to use them on us and our allies as soon as is feaseable. Another well thought out move by us.

Hope that our intelligence agencies have finally learned that these dogs bite the hand that feeds them as soon as they get the chance...
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...The aid package is in effect a taxpayer sponsered stimulus to our own arms industry...

Well I'd rather have our government give our people subsidies to buy cars for free, buy food for free, clothes for free, education for free, utilities for free, or huge discounts, and I will call it stimulus to our own, auto industry, retail industry, educational system, housing etc.

either way you sugarcoat it it's out money for them, whoever they might be.

I have no doubt that Egypt gets some good $$$ too, Syria and Saudis, I don't have url, but if I recall the numbers for Israel and Egypt were 5 billion to 1.5 billion respectively couple of years back.

Probably to keep hands off Israel.

It's all about power and money and oil. We have enough troubles in our backyard, and we should be taking care of our own, instead of subsidizing the riches of few select groups.

Josh
 
Let's widen this discussion out a bit, I didn't intend it to be so focused on Israel... yes, Israel is suffering at the hands of Islamic Terrorism, but the issue here is that the "Ummah" (global network of Muslims) are committed to a "Jihad" (war) against all "Kuffar" (infidels), not just the Semites...

What is needed is a global approach and global co-operation between all non-muslims, to hit the Islamic Terrorists hard before they can hit us again...

For example consider how effective the combination of the CIA, Mossad, the (post Soviet) KGB, MI6, Interpol etc etc would be if they developed a globally integrated unit specifically aimed at the identification, targetting and liquidation of Islamic Terrorists... we need to smoke out the Evil Doers before they have even planned their next move against us...
 
There are really two groups. The Palestinians and the Hamas. The Palesinians want peace, economic opportunity, and safety for their familys but the Hamas are the ones with the guns. All the good intentions of the Palestinian people are trumped by the guns. The Palestinian people need to take their life in their hands and overthrow the Hamas. They need to have a revolution and throw all of those scumbags in jail if they want to have a good life for their people. That's what we did here in the US during the revolutionary and civil wars and it worked out pretty well. You always have to pay for your freedom. That's true even on a personal level. The Palestinian people need to kick some ass! It's easier said than done buts that's the way it always is and it's the ONLY way.
 
This thoughtful post is why I've only traded about 2 or 3 microcap stocks since Sept. Might want to sell quick and get a good price.



__________________________

Active Trader quote written in July[arrived Aug 1/2002 ] but it is from September 2002 issue;

''After hours award-Dow Jones Imdustrial Average Index''[page106]:cool:
 
Originally posted by Rigel
There are really two groups. The Palestinians and the Hamas. The Palesinians want peace, economic opportunity, and safety for their familys but the Hamas are the ones with the guns. All the good intentions of the Palestinian people are trumped by the guns. The Palestinian people need to take their life in their hands and overthrow the Hamas. They need to have a revolution and throw all of those scumbags in jail if they want to have a good life for their people. That's what we did here in the US during the revolutionary and civil wars and it worked out pretty well. You always have to pay for your freedom. That's true even on a personal level. The Palestinian people need to kick some ass! It's easier said than done buts that's the way it always is and it's the ONLY way.
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I agree. The people are not represented by the "leaders". The "leaders" care not one bit about the "constituents" they claim to represent. It is all about power and money and guns and total lunacy.
The Palestinians' only concern is to achieve a better life. Hamas and Arafat would lose their positions of power if that ever came to pass. So again, it becomes about education and money.
Sometimes you just have to take the risk and hope things work out. We've wasted so much so often.
 
Originally posted by rs7

OK....Don't let the facts interfere with your beliefs.

In what way were the "palestinians" forced to leave Israel? How come Israel is the only place in the middle east that allows arab women the right to vote?.............


PS: If the "palestinians" (arabs) were force to leave, as you say, then how come there is a significant arab population in Israel today? They even hold posts in the government (more than they could do in the majority of the arab countries). Where did they come from? And guess what...they are happy being Israeli citizens. If you don't believe me, I suggest you go there and ask them yourself. No one forces them to stay....they just know where they are better off....as they have been all along.
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Not forced to leave? lol lol lol....now who doesn't have a grasp of the facts. Begin, a former Prime Minister of Israel was a very accomplished terrorist. He blew up the King David Hotel where close to 100 british civilians were slaughtered. Does the Stern Gang ring any bells??? Look, i don't think this web site is the appropriate place to debate mid east politics, but my god please don't add to the propaganda already out there!!! You do know the definition of a refugee don't you??? can you guess why so many palestinians live in refugee camps???
 
Originally posted by candletrader
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/07/31/mideast/index.html


It's about time the Civilised World got much tougher with the Evil Doers (Palestinian, Iraqi, Pakistani, Iranian, Syrian & other terrorists)... September 11th was a wake-up call, but the chimes keep ringing...

It's time for some major pre-emptive action against all Evil Doers, rather than waiting for the next attack... it's time for the Civilised World to strongly unite and show a firm stand against Evil Doing... It's time to smoke em all out and give em all justice, no further meandering in the periphery... it's time to hit em hard... starting with Iraq... the scum who we are up against have no fear of death, in fact they look forward to it... we should swiftly grant em their wish...
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I am just curious, have you ever seen live combat??? i wonder how gung ho you will be when the body bags start coming home. 9/11 was an extreme tradgedy but if we continue along the lines that you suggest it will look like a kindergarten party compared to what will come.
 
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