every day on elite trader

Quote from ertrader1:

You only tell people when it stops working, you write a book, you go on CNBC and speak about, you do seminars, you do live chats.
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YES!
 
Quote from Breakout:

That's a good point and why I try to post a quote from a recognized expert when I post.
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that's not a bad policy, but the problem with this business is there are so many ways to make - and lose - money you can find a quote from Schwagger's books supporting just about anything. some of the stuff i hear his traders say make me cringe when i think about how they can be taken out of context. eg stop losses 3x the expected target? excellent strategy in the right hands, financial suicide in the wrong ones.

same with just about every other technique or insight.

don't think there's much you can do to save people until they've lost enough money to realize how serious this game really is.
 
Actually many ET traders have already shared their valuable experiences (good and bad), perhaps in an implicit way (such as rules) which sometimes may not be viewed useful by some newbies.

As mentioned in the book The Innergame of Trading, we newbies need to acquire the capability and time required to translate these trading rules (or else) into effective trading strategies by ourselves.

Otherwise, no one else would do it for us. :confused: :D
 
Quote from ertrader1:

LOL what is this a socialist mentality? What do u want with such a ROBIN HOOD way of thinking.

I know a few successful traders from Elite. They are far from arrogant Bastards.

Rule number 1. If ur a success you dont tell the world your methods.

Every trader should know the basic mental rules. Other than that get the hell out of the game if you can't figuer it out on ur own.

The key to success is the fact that you find a niche that no other has, a system/method that is all your own. Of course the method or system may have some bits and pieces built upon something alreadt tried, but you modify it and build it.

You only tell people when it stops working, you write a book, you go on CNBC and speak about, you do seminars, you do live chats.
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T-REX
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 349


09-30-03 03:08 PM
Re: Would you gie up a steady job to Trade?


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Quote from NJ1000:

I curently have a job where I make about 60K a year. I currently have an offer from a proprietary firm that gives you a salary to begin with for the first few months as you learn to trade, would you give up a steady job to take this oppurtunity. Is the risk worth the reward? How much could good prop traders expect to make. Thanks for any advice.
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I have read every page in this thread and this is my opinion.

In 1994 I decided that I would learn everything about Wall Street and determine if I could beat the system. I did research, I read newspapers -i.e. Wall Street Journal & The Investors Business Daily. I read magazines and articles. I researched thousands of charts - tick charts, minute bars, daily, monthly & weekly bars. I read books from famous arthors such as Larry Williams, Ken Roberts, Wade Cook, Linda R., George Soros, Franklin Templeton. I became a Futures Broker (in an attempt to learn about the markets from the inside out & to test my strategies with real money, other peoples money) I interviewed traders from around the world. I talked to floor traders and CTA's, Hedge Fund managers. I talked to traders of ALL walks of life. Male & Female. I researched trading styles, strategies, timeframes, & systems. I backtested Ideas. I've traded everything from Porkbellies to Live Cattle to soybeans to cotton to FOREX to QQQ's to Dow Jones Options on Futures and S&P 500 Options on futures. I've traded complex options strategies: butterflies, condors (off floor), Bull Call & Bear Put spreads, etc.etc.etc. I've watched people trade using voodoo & witchcraft & Astrology & horoscopes & Gann & Elliott Wave Analysis & Candlesticks & Trend lines & support & resistance levels. I've seen people loose their ENTIRE LIFE SAVINGS!!!!!!!

BOTTOM LINE: Trading is the most difficult thing you will ever do in your entire life. The learning curve is phenominal! OVER 90% OF ALL TRADERS LOSE NEARLY 100% OF THE TIME!!!!

It will take you many years to develope your craft provided you last that long. Do I have to remind you of the 1990's. Where have ALL the daytraders gone??? Where are all of the guru's and Daytrading firms????? My point exactly.......they blew up with the bubble. The markets are very volatile and very unpredictable. I've seen people destroyed from one trade!!!!.........need I remind you of the first couple of interest rate cuts when Alan Greenspan lowered interest rates without warning!!!! and even in between Fed Meetings?????


Do yourself a favor. Find a strategy that works IN ALL MARKET CONDITIONS AND ALL MARKETS IN ALL TIME FRAMES. Thats right you need to find the holy grail. What is the holy grail????
Trading the longer term trend combined with short-term timeframes i.e. have a swing trade system running side by side with a robust daytrading system and you will win..

........I'TS THAT SIMPLE.



p.s. To learn more just check out some of the pro's on this site:

AMT - (DAMN GOOD DAY TRADER!)
marketsurfer - (DAMN GOOD!)
T-REX - (DAMN GOOD SWING TRADER!)
harrytrader - (great technical insight)
scientist - (great technical insight)
damir - (DAMN CONSISTANT!)
rezo s - (DAMN GOOD EXTENSIVE TRACK RECORD!)

........and many more!!!!

There is a wealth of knowledge here at ET where YOU can learn alot & see some GREAT realtime trading from the above mentioned and there are a few more but there names escape me @ the moment.


hope this is helpful.

now I'm going to go celebrate my birthday.

I'm outta here!



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pismo10
Junior Member

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 3


09-30-03 03:39 PM
I agree with TRex, it's brutal
I have been trading on and off for 15 years. It is the hardest thing I have ever done....Endless pitfalls. If you lose you kick yourself, if you win you kick yourself for not trading more size. IF you get good at trading then you go up in size and then you have a losing streak and are back to day one or worse. It is a no win senario EVEN IF you make money....The business is also chock full of snake oil salesman who can't make a penny trading so they sell 'advice' for huge dollars and desperate people buy it. Paper trading is worthless, Demo accounts are worthless, only reality with your own money will teach you anything. My advice is to find another career path where you accomplish something tangible, not just monetary, with your life.

I could go on and on.....

Trading is absolutely brutal. Find something else.


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I THINK THAT JUST ABOUT SUMS IT UP.



:D :D


p.s. I just thought it bared repeating.:)

p.s.s. I'M NOT AN AROGANT BASTARD!!!!:p
I freely give a "FREE" Daily ES Market FORECAST to ET readers.
:cool:
 
Quote from traderkay:

[B...
Yep. Sorry to say this but unfortunately, most of the successful traders on ET are arrogant bastards who won't share a crumb of bread with you if u were dying from hunger. [/B]
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I did get that crumb (that's why I still alive) but that is another story.
 
Quote from toby400:

Quote from harrytrader:

I will prepare a serie of articles for novices I hope in about one or two months when I will have time and feel like to do so. Then pretty sure that others will feel like to do the same just for the pleasure to contradict me : this is emulation
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"Emus do that a lot; they call them copy cats, I think.

What is that called when people pour fuel over themselves and get a friend to light them up?"
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Grob
Do you mean "Saturation" rather than "emulation" ?

:)
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I think he means "immolation".

OldTrader
 
ET must be doing something right compared to 100's of 'for fee' sites and many more 'vanity trading sites'.

There seems to be a critical mass of experience and inexperience. Several people here I can enjoy cheering for, and also people I can enjoy disliking.

Just this week: great performance by AMT4SWA with the trading challenge. The creativity of Damir last week with the LottoGirl journal.... Better than reality TV: all for free!!!

Like anything else, you take out about what you put in.

ramora :p
 
There are more strategies and useful information on this site than other site. No one want to go through the pain of finding it out. Here is what I have done and would recommend someone who wants to learn. Go through threads dating back to 2001
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/forum...&sortfield=lastpost&perpage=20&pagenumber=315
You will find many useful strategies discussed. Note the names of people who have contributed something which strikes you as useful and then search on those peoples ID s to go through their posts and collect those posts together. Go through journals and you will find hundreds of good insights and tactics and advise.
I have gone through each and every thread on the site in the beginning, complied a spreadsheet of strategies and have compiled posts from people according to their IDs.
 
Quote from breakin:

my opinion of what happens here on elite trader all too often

Someone becomes interested in trading and comes on this site to learn more. The new trader begins to read some books and articles on trading and does some basic research.

Now this person has many questions about trading any begins to post; mostly asking questions about prop shops, terms and strategies. After a few weeks/months of this our new trader begins to trade.

This is the point where the trader believes that he/she knows how to make money and has expertise in some area of the market. Doing things like pulling out a calculator and figuring out how much money needs to be made per day to make a quarter million a year....and figuring out how easy it will be to trade a certain size a certain number of times to get there. Never having done it consistently is a sure sign of this stage.

at this point our new trader begins to have some small successes and attributes any losses to "learning". It is now after an up day that he/she begins to post again, but this time not to ask questions but to answer them.

So now what we have is the new, new people getting the same old questions answered over and over again by semi new people who should not be offering advise in the first place and the cycle begins again.

--just something I have noticed, also the guys who actually make money don’t give the quick and easy answers and maybe not the answers the new, new person wants to hear.......that is if the successful trader takes time to answer new trader questions in the first place
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Dead on analysis. :cool:
 
Quote from damir00:


that's not a bad policy, but the problem with this business is there are so many ways to make - and lose - money you can find a quote from Schwagger's books supporting just about anything. some of the stuff i hear his traders say make me cringe when i think about how they can be taken out of context. eg stop losses 3x the expected target? excellent strategy in the right hands, financial suicide in the wrong ones.

same with just about every other technique or insight.
More...

I'm not sure I completely agree with that. For example, on the stop losses you mentioned. I'm sure there are some traders who
risk 3 times their profit target, but I don't believe the vast majority of successful traders would do that, and I don't think
that would be good advice for a newbie.

I guess Jack says it best..."Despite the wide
gamut of styles, I have found that certain principles hold true for
a broad spectrum of traders."__Jack D. Schwager,
The New Market Wizards, pg.461
 
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