ES Daytraders, Whats max heat you will take ?

[gnome]

Quote from whitster:

some comments:

1) i scalp for ticks for a living. so, whomever thinks it's a suckers game, it's a suckers game that you can make a great living at (note: i also do long-term and swing investments and positions plays in different accounts, but my primary income is YM scalps for 4-10 points

2) your stop (imo) is best set based on the setup structure you are trading, vs. some arbitrary #. imo. all my (scalp) setups have predetermined stops, and many of my position setups do as well. for other position type trades, i use basic support/resistance (primarily based on market profile).

the problem with arbitrary stop #'s is that, while they manage risk, they will manage it (often) very suboptimally, since they don't take into account market structure, or setup dynamics.

imo

i don't trade ES, I trade YM

some setups use a 12 pts stop

some use a 6 pt stop

some use a 20 pts stop

etc.

depends on the setup

(note: 9-10 dow points = 1 ES point (which is 4 ES ticks))

First, let me say that I'm not claiming "nobody makes good money scalping". I'm just saying it's difficult and the huge majority who try, fail. (Maybe you've got HUGE onions and superior discipline.... good for you!)

Second, trading is difficult enough without taking the most treacherous path. More success will be had by taking the easiest path... scalping is definitely NOT it.

 

[volente_00]

Are you with Tradegroup?

 

[tradertony76]

I suppose the flaw in my thinking is not bitching about having a 4-6 tick stop requirement, but rather that I need to be better about placing my trades such that 4-6 ticks of heat will prove my trade idea wrong.

I just get frustrated.

When I'm selective about my trades, I feel I get bitched at for not being aggressive enough, and when I'm aggressive I get stopped out and lose. I suppose the whole game is finding a happy medium between the two extremes.

 

[jim c]

Tony...Where you place your stop has alot to do with your profit target. The best advise I can give you is do a search for futurestrader71..then search for the keyword "losses". there are about 4 pages that will come up. These pages contain some of the most profound sh*t i have ever read or heard when it comes to dealing with your losses or your stop! It changed my trading alot! good luck jim

 

[fearless9]

Quote from tradertony76:

Hey All,

I have a question for the ES daytraders out there. I'm curious what is the max heat you will allow yourself to take ?

The firm I'm at wants me to dump/hard stop at 4 boxes, and it seems I'm always getting stopped out at a disadvantageous price.

Just wondering if 4 boxes is standard, or if most ES traders will take more.

Manual 3 tic stop with a 4 tic hard stop which has never been applied.

I am trading from -100 tic bars, morning session only.

 

[austinp]

<i>"We dont have many ES traders right now. I'm one of a handful of guinea pigs in a sim room.

My goal at the moment is getting 4-12 ticks per trade with a high win% or at least a low losing %. I'd say average winner I'm shooting for is 6 ticks."</i>

I'd opine there aren't many ES traders there right now, because that specific approach inside decades' low volatility is all but impossible to sustain.

Would be more encouraging if the firm leaders / pros could actually accomplish this strategy themselves.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from gnome:

More success will be had by taking the easiest path...

Just curious. What do you consider that to be?

 

[gnome]

Quote from Thunderdog:

Just curious. What do you consider that to be?

Well, there is no really "easy" path... but scalping is definitely more difficult.

I've been trading longer than most of the noobs on ET have been alive.... and I believe there are 2 potentially good approaches...

(1) Swing trades off of daily charts

(2) Daily-Swing type trades... going for the potential of 8-10 swing points with 3-4 points risk.

Scalping is just waaaay too manic and requires players determine "which noise tick is playable for profit". The fact that it's mostly "noise" = low probability of getting it right.

 

[austinp]

<i>"Well, there is no really "easy" path... but scalping is definitely more difficult.

I've been trading longer than most of the noobs on ET have been alive.... and I believe there are 2 potentially good approaches...

(1) Swing trades off of daily charts

(2) Daily-Swing type trades... going for the potential of 8-10 swing points with 3-4 points risk.

Scalping is just waaaay too manic and requires players determine "which noise tick is playable for profit". The fact that it's mostly "noise" = low probability of getting it right."</i>

Couldn't agree more. Add to that the fact that scalping is actually tougher inside low-range conditions than it is in normal to large-range price action.

Logical assumption is dull markets = shoot for smaller gains. In reality, the small losses are easily hit but small gains come tough. Sitting thru hours worth of "noise" to catch the bigger swings is actually best approach in dull markets.

Logic has it backwards, as usual... which is exactly why most traders fail.

 

[volente_00]

Quote from gnome:

(1) Swing trades off of daily charts

(2) Daily-Swing type trades... going for the potential of 8-10 swing points with 3-4 points risk.

And how do you make money with these strategies on the 6 point range days intraday ? Not everyday is like today and the majority of the time es is chopping sideways in a narrow range.