"End The IRS Before It Ends Us..." -- Grover Norquist

[achilles28]

Taxing the poor is NOT immoral. Everyone uses Government services, so EVERYONE PAYS. No dog in the fight = the many vote for the few for dinner. When everyone has to dole out for more "free goodies", few are inclined to vote in favor as there is no free lunch.

Progressive taxation creates a free lunch system. The few pay for the many, so the many keep voting for more and more "benefits" as it doesn't cost them a thing. After a few decades, tax rates go from 15%, to 25%, to >50%, and the Government explodes in size. Pure dogshit system created by morons.

The poor NEVER pay their "fair share". Do the math. On a per person basis, the rich pay their way 10-100 times over, while the poor don't even cover a fraction of their individual cost. Yet the poor and their advocates always demand somebody else "pay more".

 

[loyek590]

and as far as tariffs go, that is the worse possible solution. I mean, take a toke and just think about it for two minutes.

2 minutes later

well how'd that go?
"Yeah, tariffs are a bad idea, but that is some damn good weed."

 

[loyek590]

Taxing the poor is NOT immoral. Everyone uses Government services, so EVERYONE PAYS. No dog in the fight = the many vote for the few for dinner. When everyone has to dole out for more "free goodies", few are inclined to vote in favor as there is no free lunch.

Progressive taxation creates a free lunch system. The few pay for the many, so the many keep voting for more and more "benefits" as it doesn't cost them a thing. After a few decades, tax rates go from 15%, to 25%, to >50%, and the Government explodes in size. Pure dogshit system created by morons.

The poor NEVER pay their "fair share". Do the math. On a per person basis, the rich pay their way 10-100 times over, while the poor don't even cover a fraction of their individual cost. Yet the poor and their advocates always demand somebody else "pay more".

taxing the poor is not immoral, but it is a very stupid idea. If you think you want more money who would you tax, the rich or the poor?

 

[loyek590]

it's immoral to tax the poor to pay for some war that will never have any direct affect on their lifestyle. And it is immoral to tax the poor so they can have a new stadium for their NFL team which the new sports related sales tax in many states now do.

You are so preoccupied with making sure the poor pay their fair share. Better you should be preoccupied with how to eliminate the poor. Then we wouldn't have to worry about them.

Someone said, "The poor will always be among you." That guy didn't last very long, but many will kill and die for Him.

I look at hunger and poverty as done deals. There is no reason, no reason at all for any citizen of the world today to be poor or hungry.

 

[jem]

Piezoe I appreciate your comments... so I will give you mine... ahead of time.
As Orwell put it, it

The real division is not between conservatives and revolutionaries but between authoritarians and libertarians.”

― George Orwell, The Lost Orwell: Being a Supplement to The Complete Works of George Orwell

Anyone siding with virtually the entire crop of democrats or the establishment Republicans is siding with the authoritarians.

And Soros knows it. After Kennedy its been all banker and their S&P 500 all the time. For a while it was Eastern Elite and Bankers vs the Oil industry and manufacturers. But as manufacturing got outsourced and leveraged there is no longer any infighting in the establishment. Soro's team of Bankers is the team... they are the Chamber of Congress and they are the guys who run the Democrat team.

Its sellout Democrats and sellout Republicans vs the libertarians and the tea party.
Soros opposes opposition to his establishment buddies.
He also had a personal grudge match with the Bush's from what I read... that may have made it look like he was a good guy... but he is Authoritarian and Crony to the core.
He hates individual and local rule.

edit... it should have said chamber of commerce not chamber of congress. although they are that too.

Yes, to some extent perhaps.. I'll try to explain my own position when I get a moment. Soros is about opposing repressive governments. When he puts money into open society projects he doesn't interfere once the project is underway. So some of these projects work out to his satisfaction and some of them don't. That hands off approach is itself a libertarian approach. He is strongly opposed to totalitarian governments. I look at the world more as he does than I would guess you do, but we can discuss this later when we have more time. One thing I'm fairly sure of is that he has been misunderstood by many because he financially supported the democrats heavily in the first Obama election. He did so because he saw the Democrats as the lesser of two evils rather than being an all out supporter. He was strongly opposed to the G.W. Bush administration, the patriot act, etc. He has been rather critical of Obama since.

I think Loyek has it right when he says that Soros doesn't believe laissez faire markets work well. He makes a very strong case against them, and laissez faire is of course a core idea among most libertarians. I'm firmly with Soros on this. Markets move away from equilibrium just as often, if not more often, then they move toward it. The belief that markets, if left alone, will harmlessly self-correct excesses is a defect in libertarian market philosophy. Soros likes to say it is closer to the truth to say that markets tend away from equilibrium than it is to say they tend towards it.

 

[loyek590]

As Orwell put it, it

The real division is not between conservatives and revolutionaries but between authoritarians and libertarians.”

― George Orwell, The Lost Orwell: Being a Supplement to The Complete Works of George Orwell

Anyone siding with virtually the entire crop of democrats or the establishment Republicans is siding with the authoritarians.

And Soros knows it. After Kennedy its been all banker and their S&P 500 all the time. For a while it was Eastern Elite and Bankers vs the Oil industry and manufactures. But as manufacturing got outsourced there is no longer any infighting in the establishment. Soro's team of Bankers is the team... they are the Chamber of Congress and they are the guys who run the Democrat team.

Its sellout Demorcrats and sellout Republicans vs the libertarians and the tea party.
Soros opposes opposition to his establishment buddies.
He also had a personal grudge match with the Bush's from what I read... that may have made it look like he was a good guy... but he is Authoritarian and Crony to the core.
He hates individual and local rule.

yes, isn't that what it has come down to. Nothing more than an argument about who is going to be in charge when it is all over.

What they don't get is we want nobody to be in charge. That really messes with their minds.

 

[jem]

I enjoy reading many of your posts... not that I can predict what they will say.

yes, isn't that what it has come down to. Nothing more than an argument about who is going to be in charge when it is all over.

What they don't get is we want nobody to be in charge. That really messes with their minds.

 

[loyek590]

I enjoy reading many of your posts... not that I can predict what they will say.

I love talking about taxes. You can talk about "Big Government" and I'm sure they screw me silently in too many ways to know, but my only real interaction with them is on April 15th when I pay my income taxes.

 

[piezoe]

Jem, you might enjoy reading Gore Vidal's "Imperial America" . He refers to mainstream politicians as "Bankers" as in Banker Kennedy, Banker Carter, etc.

Soros is brilliant, well-educated, vastly experienced, and exceedingly complex, with a near comprehensive knowledge of 20th Century U.S., European and British history. If you want to understand him, you'll have to read him. You shouldn't rely on media stories, Youtube conspiracy videos, or the opinions of others (including mine). Read Soros. There is no lack of material. Then decide for yourself. The interviews on PBS with Charlie Rose on youtube are excellent places to go to get the flavor of the man, but they only scratch the surface..

 

[jem]

I have watched the man for many years... I saw him on charlie rose and I have read what he says. With traders you have to understand that they are always full of shit and frequently talking their book.

When I saw him tell rose that pain in the back crap... I knew that many was so full of shit it was scary. When you get feed inside deals like he does and he tells Rose that crap... I almost puked.

You need to dig deeper than the crap he puts out for consumption. you have to understand who he works for


Here... he gave a lecture...

http://c14989882.r82.cf2.rackcdn.co...-general-theory-of-reflexivity-transcript.pdf

here he explains that his critics argue is philosphy is obvious and he admits his critics are partially correct.

if you really read this guy.. .you realize that like Greenspan uses Rand to cover up his banker ties... and Buffett uses his tiny home (he has big ones too) to act like he is a man of the people rather than the banker crony he is...

soros uses this reflexivity crap and the pain in the back... to cover up for the banker puppet he is. He is a spokes puppet for the bankers... , like buffet, like the pimpco guys....
When the left needs to push some theft of liberty crap... they march these guys out like trained seals.

Buffet saying taxes don't matter... was the height of seal tricks for the public. But soros has told other whopppers.