Easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter....

themickey

themickey

This thread is about spitituality, not christianity exclusively.
.........................

"Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” -Matthew 19:21-24"

Discuss:
What is the kingdom of God?
What's the problem of the rich?
The current pentecostal churches encourage wealth, is there a problem here?
How do you enter the kingdom of God?

My impression, this parable is a metaphor, a hyperbole, kingdom of God, heaven, are spiritual states, not physical states.

The rich man is a metaphorical physical state of greed and self, where the kingdom of God is one of Love?

Heaven is not an exclusive realm for christians, but all people.
'Jesus' is also a metaphor, He is the metaphor for a gateway.
God is not a exclusive christian God, He is a universal creator.

Let the fighting begin! LOL :) :)
 
Camels, Needles, and the Rich
If Jesus was talking about an actual camel and an actual needle, then the rich are in big trouble. Commentaries suggest that He may have been saying something different. The Aramaic word for “rope,” kamilon, was almost identical to the Greek word for “camel,” kamelon, which appears in the verse. Some scholars say that the word was misspelled, and so Jesus may have been making an analogy to threading a thick rope through the eye of a needle, not a large animal. In other words, He may have been referring to something extremely difficult, but not impossible.

Other commentators suggest that, at that time, there was a type of small gate called a needle. Still, others insist that Jesus’ statement was as absurd as it sounds, actually referring to our same notions of camels and needles.

There are several potential explanations for what camels and needles could have meant in Biblical times. However, all of them point to the same lesson: Jesus said that it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, for a rich person to enter His Kingdom.

In fact, when the disciples then speculate that no one can be saved, Jesus replies, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” (Matthew 19:26)

https://www.fh.org/blog/camel-through-eye-of-needle-meaning/
 
themickey said:
This thread is about spitituality, not christianity exclusively.
.........................

"Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” -Matthew 19:21-24"

Discuss:
What is the kingdom of God?
What's the problem of the rich?
The current pentecostal churches encourage wealth, is there a problem here?
How do you enter the kingdom of God?

My impression, this parable is a metaphor, a hyperbole, kingdom of God, heaven, are spiritual states, not physical states.

The rich man is a metaphorical physical state of greed and self, where the kingdom of God is one of Love?

Heaven is not an exclusive realm for christians, but all people.
'Jesus' is also a metaphor, He is the metaphor for a gateway.
God is not a exclusive christian God, He is a universal creator.

Let the fighting begin! LOL :) :)
More...
You left out a part: even though it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God, when the disciples asked Jesus who, then, could be saved, then Jesus replied that with God all things are possible...so it isn't that rich people can't be saved, it's that they can't be saved on their own, they need God to save them, and that is true for all of us.:)

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
Matthew 19:23-26​

1. In context, especially vs. 26, the discussion is over entering God's eternal kingdom--the salvation of one's soul.

2. The problem of the rich is lack of awareness of their own predicament, that they are destitute (as are the rest of us) of perfect holiness/righteousness. They trust in riches rather than God and God's provision.

3. Yes, the Pentecostal teachings are not accurate with some of their wealth and prosperity teachings. There is quite a bit in the the New Testament that talks about poverty among Christians as well as health issues. People should not want to become Christians to obtain earthly possessions, but only to be reconciled to God from their sinful condition. There are, however, many blessing that Christians enjoy, one of them is that God makes Himself known to them, in a quiet way, almost indiscernible, yet by answers to prayer or enlightenment of truths about Himself, and other ways, He builds a relationship with those who are immersed in Jesus (not water immersion, but the immersion that water represents, becoming placed into Christ), cleansed from their sins by His blood and now live in relationship with Him.

4. How do you enter the kingdom of God? "The kingdom of God is within you" according to Jesus. A kingdom must have a King, and Jesus is the ruler over His kingdom. His first command to all is to repent and believe. After believing, one becomes a part of His His kingdom.

For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
John 6:40

​
 
themickey said:
In fact, when the disciples then speculate that no one can be saved, Jesus replies, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” (Matthew 19:26)
More...
YEP!
themickey said:
Camels, Needles, and the Rich
If Jesus was talking about an actual camel and an actual needle, then the rich are in big trouble. Commentaries suggest that He may have been saying something different. The Aramaic word for “rope,” kamilon, was almost identical to the Greek word for “camel,” kamelon, which appears in the verse. Some scholars say that the word was misspelled, and so Jesus may have been making an analogy to threading a thick rope through the eye of a needle, not a large animal. In other words, He may have been referring to something extremely difficult, but not impossible.

Other commentators suggest that, at that time, there was a type of small gate called a needle. Still, others insist that Jesus’ statement was as absurd as it sounds, actually referring to our same notions of camels and needles.

There are several potential explanations for what camels and needles could have meant in Biblical times. However, all of them point to the same lesson: Jesus said that it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, for a rich person to enter His Kingdom.

In fact, when the disciples then speculate that no one can be saved, Jesus replies, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” (Matthew 19:26)

https://www.fh.org/blog/camel-through-eye-of-needle-meaning/
More...

Since it is impossible for anyone to enter God's kingdom by trusting in themselves, their riches or their works, I lean toward thinking it was a real camel He was talking about. Either way, salvation comes by looking to God and receiving God's help, and not relying on ourselves.
 
studentofthemarkets said:
with God all things are possible...so it isn't that rich people can't be saved, it's that they can't be saved on their own, they need God to save them, and that is true for all of us.:)
More...
God doesn't save anyone.
If God saved, then he's forcing his will.
Humans save themselves via their decisions.
If God saved, then I'm going to sit on my ass watching tv, and wait to be saved after a short 5 second prayer "God, please save my sorry ass".
 
In the church of England a protestant friend said they used to make up a cock and bull story to comfort rich kids about the needle being a gate only passable by a man in the wall of a Jerusalem or some other city.

This made it seem just very very difficult, not entirely impossible.

Its a real needle and the rich better have a very good bullet blender was his feeling after studying the matter.

Some believe the solution is to give/will your wealth to the poor, not try and die like a pharo. This necessitates your children mostly creating their own wealth which is how I have observed many overly wealthy are handling their estates.
 
Giving your wealth away, making yourself materially poor won't do diddly squat.
The only way it may help, you'll sit in an empty field contemplating.

"Be still and know that I am God".
 
Some of the New Testament Christians were wealthy. They often used their wealth for hospitality. It is not a sin to have wealth. What the rich young ruler was lacking was regarding his relationship with God and his riches were a hinderance to that relationship. If he had sold everything in obedience to Jesus' command, then that action would require him to first have faith in Jesus more than his own riches, but he was not willing to do this. Jesus did not command everyone to sell their riches, only the rich young ruler.
 
themickey said:
Giving your wealth away, making yourself materially poor won't do diddly squat.
The only way it may help, you'll sit in an empty field contemplating.

"Be still and know that I am God".
More...

The wealthy will always try and wriggle off the hook of material wealth being an impediment. The statement is in the bible, it either had meaning or it does not.

Or, here is an idea, the big book of Jewish fairytales is a cacophony of rubbish. Live as blameless a life as you can, do your best for people.
 
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