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Drudge Exposes Bogus Site That Outed Foley
- Thread starter AAAintheBeltway
- Start date
"Zing"?Quote from spect8or:
Lol, Zing.
Hap probably won't respond, but if he does, I wonder if he could sketch out any remotely plausible scenario in which the terrorists 'destroy America' because of American disunity? (Note to hap: you'd have to show how under those circumstances unity, itself, could save America.)
LOL!
I've had Artie21 on Ignore for quite some time now, one of the main reasons being his inability to formulate a coherent argument and instead just post nonsense and ad hominem. His post you quoted is a prime example - stating that I am opposed to the GOP being denounced because "the terrorists will get us." I've stated on ET over and over that Bush deserves criticism for many things and have criticized him myself. That I do not drink the kool-aid of moonbats like Artie automatically, in their eyes, makes me a neocon.
Artie's an ass. Morons like him have already bought their burkhas. If you subscribe to what he says, then you're an ass.
As for the unity statement, I'm referring to the fact that the polarization of this country emboldens the terrorists. How can you possibly argue against that? The terrorists want us to leave Iraq. The Democrats/Libs want us to leave Iraq before the Iraqis are capable of handling security themselves. They have the same objective. Read the NIE the moonbats love to cherry-pick and check out what it says a defeat for us there would result in.
So yes, this disunity is an enormous boon to the terrorists. They're salivating at the prospect of a Dem win in the elections and the subsequent withdrawal from Iraq that would follow. This could very well be catastrophic for our country.
Quote from hapaboy:
As for the unity statement, I'm referring to the fact that the polarization of this country emboldens the terrorists. How can you possibly argue against that? The terrorists want us to leave Iraq.
So yes, this disunity is an enormous boon to the terrorists. They're salivating at the prospect of a Dem win in the elections and the subsequent withdrawal from Iraq that would follow. This could very well be catastrophic for our country.
I'm having trouble following you. Is this argument: as long as Americans are in Iraq and Americans are polarized about that, terrorists are emboldened. If Americans can be forced to abandon Iraq, then it turns catastrophic for America. The real danger of disunity, then, is that American might flinch and abandon Iraq. Have I got that right?
You've got what I'm trying to say partly right.Quote from spect8or:
I'm having trouble following you. Is this argument: as long as Americans are in Iraq and Americans are polarized about that, terrorists are emboldened. If Americans can be forced to abandon Iraq, then it turns catastrophic for America. The real danger of disunity, then, is that American might flinch and abandon Iraq. Have I got that right?
Yes, the terrorists are emboldened when they hear the cries amongst Americans - especially influential American politicians - to cut and run from Iraq whilst calling the Commander in Chief all kinds of names. How could they not be? So were the North Vietnamese. If you were a Ba'athist or an Al Qaeda terrorist in Iraq, wouldn't you be emboldened? Wouldn't you be emboldened by reading the NY Times? The objections to monitoring phone calls or financial transactions, the call to treat terrorists with kid gloves? With this well-publicized discord, they know they don't have to defeat us in combat, but merely inflict enough casualties to get us to pull out. That is the lesson bin Laden referred to about the Black Hawk Down episode in Somalia.
If Americans can be forced to abandon Iraq, it MAY be catastrophic for America.
Disunity is fine; I have no truck with people opposing the policies of whatever administration is in power. It's when that disunity helps our enemies that I feel a line has been crossed, one that is detrimental to our safety as a nation.
Quote from hapaboy:
If Americans can be forced to abandon Iraq, it MAY be catastrophic for America.
So we've gone from 'could very well be' to 'may' be. That's a little vague isn't it? My hitting the 'Submit Reply' button after finishing this post may be - by some convoluted chain of causation - catastrophic for America. I don't mean to be smart, but could I ask you to spell out the catastrophe that awaits should America pull out of Iraq, and how, specifically, that catastrophe would be precipitated by the pullout?
(Also, what if Americans were united in support of a pullout? Would that still embolden? Again, sincere questions, hap.)
Oh, you do mean to be a smart aleck, but we all do that on occasion.Quote from spect8or:
So we've gone from 'could very well be' to 'may' be. That's a little vague isn't it? My hitting the 'Submit Reply' button after finishing this post may be - by some convoluted chain of causation - catastrophic for America. I don't mean to be smart,
but could I ask you to spell out the catastrophe that awaits should America pull out of Iraq, and how, specifically, that catastrophe would be precipitated by the pullout
Anyway, and for the final time, pulling out of Iraq without the ability of the Iraqis to provide security would be a decisive defeat for the US and hailed as such in the Muslim world. Nothing would help the spread of radical Islam more than being able to claim that, far from being held in check by the US, it is in fact a rising force as demonstrated by a victory for itself in Iraq. This would boost the morale of our enemies immensely, enable them to recruit in higher numbers, and instill in them the perception that they can win.
Again, bin Laden said that the US lacked the will for a protracted fight as evidenced by the weak response to Somalia, the Khobar Towers, and the USS Cole incident. Taking out the Taliban after 9/11 repudiated that, but retreating from Iraq would revive the belief of US weakness.
Now tell me, do you think Al Qaeda and the other Islamic radicals would just lay down their arms against us and go back to tending goats and sheeps? Or would they be more determined than ever to strike us again, and at home? If you had an enemy on the ropes, would you just let him go, or would you try to deliver the coup de grace?
Iran would love this. Qaddafi had the shit scared out of him when we took out Saddam - he worried he could be next - which resulted in Libya's "voluntary disarmament." Think that would work with Iran if we lost in Iraq? If we cut and run it would be evidence that the US simply does not have the will to confront its nuclear ambitions militarily, at least in a protracted sense, and thus diplomacy wouldn't have a chance without the prospect of US force. Who's going to scare Iran if not us? The UN? Give me a break....
And once Iran has nukes, don't you think that will be motivation for the other nations in the region to do so as well? It could mean an arms race.
So yes, I think these events could be catastrophic for the US.
Besides the above, think about what else a defeat for us in Iraq would mean:
Total loss of credibility with Muslim reformers, who have seen millions of Iraqis vote despite the risk to their lives, in pursuit of democracy. If we were to cut and run, and abandon those Iraqis, other reform-minded Muslims would of course NOT gamble their own lives and futures on American support. Not only that, each country in the Middle East would reevaluate its own position vis a vis the United States. Those who support us, even tacitly, would have to reconsider their stance, and for the worse.
Much broader instability in the region. Iran would have a free hand to meddle in Iraq and help wackos like al-Sadr usurp moderates like Sistani. Syria would have a free hand to again meddle in Lebanon and, along with Iran, let Hezbollah loose on Israel again.
Of course it would still embolden our enemies. A defeat for us in Iraq is a victory for radical Islam, regardless of how many Americans support our withdrawal.(Also, what if Americans were united in support of a pullout? Would that still embolden? Again, sincere questions, hap.)
how about a transfer under NATO command? wldn't that allow the US to downsize in Iraq without allowing the Islamists to claim victory? NATO can implement ink spots, US forces don't have the appropriate resources for that... wldn't such a transition naturally sap the islamists' resolve, the support they get from the locals, and facilitate the establishment of peace in Iraq? if there is a chance it may work, why is Bush so opposed to it?
of course Nato country leaders will rightfully ask for all of the Bush admin to bend over first, but... seems like a fair price to pay for years of loose cannon type behaviour, the litany of mistakes from Bush, Rumsfeld, Bremer etc doesn't it?... meanwhile the body bags are piling up...
what will it take for the Bush admin to accept that the current course is a dead end... whatever it is, we'll get there... guaranteed
of course Nato country leaders will rightfully ask for all of the Bush admin to bend over first, but... seems like a fair price to pay for years of loose cannon type behaviour, the litany of mistakes from Bush, Rumsfeld, Bremer etc doesn't it?... meanwhile the body bags are piling up...
what will it take for the Bush admin to accept that the current course is a dead end... whatever it is, we'll get there... guaranteed