Don't you just love the French?

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Quote from stu:

ps.RS7 Teach me to type that fast:D
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Stu, you must be kidding. I type and come back and see so many posts since what I responding to that I am already irrelevant.

Reason I think Traderfut is intelligent has nothing to do with his "opinion". Read his exchange with Daniel_M in an old thread about Student attack (something) ....couldn't find it. But they had a very interesting and intelligent debate. Being right or wrong has little to do with "intelligence". I disagree with TF most of the time (not all the time). But I respect his ability to think. I wish he were more open minded.

TF....slavery in the US into the '60's????? You have said that before...how about clearing it up and specifying that it was the 1860's ...you make it sound like it was the 1960's which is clearly NOT TRUE! Dates matter! Like I said in my last post....the PAST is over!!!!

:)rs7
 
NO NO NO...

It is over for black people but not for the Jews???? Strange isnt' it. I want a brother to intervene. I am not black but I don't accept that. Till the 1960's segregation was still practised in the US.

Still the 1960's people like Marthin Luther and MAlcolm X fought for the rights of black people.

Till the sixties black people could not have access to some universities and did not have the right to sit with white people in a bus. I am not american but I don't think this is so old. more recent than the Holocaust... Let me know if I am right
 
Again....Stu is right TF...

Paste and Cut doesn't "cut it".

No one cares about reading published opinions. We are here to express our own thoughts. If I wanted to read propaganda, there are more well organized and well written sources. And I can find any opinion on any issue I choose. Too easy. I would rather think than copy. Besides, we have all heard it too many times. What's the point?

Here I am defending your intelligence. I know you have the ability to state your opinions and explain them yourself. You don't need to give us the opinions of others. Especially more than once:confused:

Do you think repetition is going to change our minds? Hell, you pasted a website that starts off with (essentially)..."Don't believe what you read here without further research" or something to that effect. Basically this makes sense. Just because something is written and published doesn't make it fact. If you believe everything you read.......well I guess you get my point.

Peace,
:)rs7
 
Quote from traderfut2000:

At least I am taking the time to find good sources and bring them to you. However, you are so blind you do not even want to read them.

Like last time we had a discussion and we had a private mail conversation. you were asserting one thing and I brought you the evidences. And then you stopped your agressive strategy of criticizing without bringing anything to the table.

Today, if you have somthing to say except accsuing me of pasting which is not true bring it to the table. Rs7 takes the time to debate. you only take the time to accuse.

Pathetic :)
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the private mail conversation as you put it, was you posting more cut & paste only that time in French.
I made a point about Mosques in France which you would not acknowledge was correct as I recall. You are still doing the same .
I make one point and you call me racist.
That is insulting and just plain wrong. I am interested in the dbate but you don't debate. You say EVERYONE else must see your point but YOU WON'T see theirs
That's where bigotry lies.
 
Quote from traderfut2000:

NO NO NO...

It id over for black people but not for the Jews???? Stange isnt it.
I want a brother to intervene. I am not black but I don't accept that.Till the 1960's segregation was still practised in the US.

Still the 1960's people like Marthin Luther and MAlcolm X fought for the rights of black people.

Till the sixties black people could not have access to some universities and did not have the right to sit with white people in a bus. I am not american but I don't think this is so old. more recent than the Holocaust... Let me know if I am right
More...

True...segregation went on too long. But only in a small part of America. And was ended in the 50's, not the 60's. (legally).

True, it is a shameful part of our PAST! PAST!. In America, when things are wrong, they can be changed. Says so right in our constitution. Even says we can get rid of our government if it is in our best interest. Wonder how that would go over in Iraq?

Or in any middle eastern country with one exception.....in your evil empire of Israel, they can vote out their leaders at any time. Don't have to wait for a scheduled election.

And, not that it is terribly relevant to this discussion, but 51% of the people in the US did NOT vote for Bush. More voted for Gore. But it makes no difference. We have an old law that made that possible, and so far nothing has been done to change that. The law made a lot of sense when it was written. Little sense now. But of course there can be arguments to keep that law for reasons having to do with statehood, etc. Nothing I care about, and hopefully nothing that will matter again. But the law CAN BE CHANGED. Which is a lot different than how things work elsewhere.

Peace,
:)rs7

PS: It was not legal to own Krugerands in the US for a time prior to the end of apartheid in S. Africa. The relationship was not as TF portrays it between the US and S. Africa. I suggest the movie "Lethal Weapon II". Here you will see the American perception of South Africa at that time. Also some pretty cool fighting and stuff. And some really bad bad-guys...all of whom were South Africans. The good guy loved calling them "Adolph".
 
RS7,

I doubt it. Even if there was a segreagation in a smalll village that would be unbereable. BUt the KluKluxKlan, the segregation in many schools jobs etc is not something be forgotten not from a jew.

And when we talk about the PAST. So please stop justifying the attacks of the USA with that so old past with that old Nazi regim and say that we are luckly because the US intervened. AS I said it it intervened where its interests were .. full point.
Ask the Vietnamese and Koreans what they think of your interventions??? ask the Irakis and Cubans.

You will see that the USA is not the perfect example. Once again, there are good people but not everything is so perfect.




Quote from rs7:



True...segregation went on too long. But only in a small part of America. And was ended in the 50's, not the 60's. (legally).

True, it is a shameful part of our PAST! PAST!. In America, when things are wrong, they can be changed. Says so right in our constitution. Even says we can get rid of our government if it is in our best interest. Wonder how that would go over in Iraq?

Or in any middle eastern country with one exception.....in your evil empire of Israel, they can vote out their leaders at any time. Don't have to wait for a scheduled election.

And, not that it is terribly relevent to this discussion, but 51% of the people in the US did NOT vote for Bush. More voted for Gore. But it makes no difference. We have an old law that made that possible, and so far nothing has been done to change that. The law made a lot of sense when it was written. Little sense now. But of course there can be arguments to keep that law for reasons having to do with statehood, etc. Nothing I care about, and hopefully nothing that will matter again. But the law CAN BE CHANGED. Which is a lot different than how things work elsewhere.

Also,
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Quote from traderfut2000:

:)

probably kidding man. bring something to the table and stop crying like a babe.

:mad:
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after what you've posted that just sounds like patronizing crap

There is some really good writing and interesting points are made in here.
I will take it that traderfut has an intelligent gene which he presumably uses once in a while, despite his insults.
The problem for me is the debate is a valid one. I would never regret or be ashamed of being American but I don't agree obviously with everything that's done in my name by government.
However when good points are made I like to see them answered rationally and logically. Traderfut seems to think that all the answers must be HIS and actually answering a specific point until it is sensibly concluded is irrelevent. So instead he ignores them.That spoils the debate as well as the reading and just plain makes it pointless.
 
This thread is so far off track.

The point of "MY" thread was that the French suck at times.

Why don't you guys start an "I hate America" thread if you want controversy?

It is so funny watching people compare hate crimes. As if one hate crime is worse than another, and therefore it justifies retaliation.

They all suck. Hate sucks, whether it was 10 years ago, 100 years ago, or 1,000 years ago.

Solutions, solutions, solution.

I don't hear any in this thread.
 
Quote from rs7:



....the PAST is over!!!!

:)rs7
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right.

that's the only way to move forward. all examples will inevitably lack poignancy to a degree, but the way unified germany handled east german perpetrators guilty of various political crimes isn't all bad: at some point they were simply granted a form of amnesty.

if one had not done that one would simply have started engaging in "victors" justice which isn't all that just, and misappropriated a lot of energy from focussing on the ever more important tomorrow.

now, that is not to say that current atrocities should be ignored, and unfortunately the article from professor jensen quoted above is undoubtedly true in that the usa has failed in living up to it's role of honest broker and allowed israeli crimes to largely remain unchallenged.

i mean, the Israelis didn't even have problems shooting at foreign demonstrators, who were totally harmless, and while international tv crews were present, during the recent church siege, so it doesn't take much to imagine how palestinians are treated when no foreigners and no media are present. or think about reports you read from arabs that have to cross the israeli border on a daily basis from the palestinian territories and are routinely subjected to incredible humiliations.

now, don't get me wrong, that's nothing to do with being an israeli or jew, that also is just human nature.

you get young boys who are scared, give them guns and a uniform, and sooner or later, irrespective of race, religion or beliefs, the bad side of human nature will surface.

this is a similar to the Einstein letter, only more recent:

Israeli academics':

Israeli government may be contemplating crimes against humanity

by Jacob Katriel • Thursday September 26, 2002 at 10:57 PM

We are deeply worried by indications that the "fog of war" could be exploited by the Israeli government to commit further crimes against the Palestinian people, up to full-fledged ethnic cleansing.

Members of Israeli academe are invited to add their name to the statement presented below by sending an email to: jkatriel@tx.technion.ac.il


Urgent warning: The Israeli government may be contemplating crimes against humanity.


We, members of Israeli academe, are horrified by US buildup of aggression towards Iraq and by the Israeli political leadership's enthusiastic support for it.

We are deeply worried by indications that the "fog of war" could be exploited by the Israeli government to commit further crimes against the Palestinian people, up to full-fledged ethnic cleansing.

The Israeli ruling coalition includes parties that promote "transfer" of the Palestinian population as a solution to what they call "the demographic problem". Politicians are regularly quoted in the media as suggesting forcible expulsion, most recently MKs Michael Kleiner and Benny Elon, as reported on Yediot Ahronot website on September 19, 2002. In a recent interview in Ha'aretz, Chief of Staff Moshe Ya'alon described the Palestinians as a "cancerous manifestation" and equated the military actions in the Occupied Territories with "chemotherapy", suggesting that more radical "treatment" may be necessary. Prime Minister Sharon has backed this "assessment of reality". Escalating racist demagoguery concerning the Palestinian citizens of Israel may indicate the scope of the crimes that are possibly being contemplated.

We call upon the International Community to pay close attention to events that unfold within Israel and in the Occupied Territories, to make it absolutely clear that crimes against humanity will not be tolerated, and to take concrete measures to prevent such crimes from taking place.

Prof. Nahla Abdo, Ottawa Prof. Zach Adam, Rehovot Prof. Colman Altman, Haifa Dr. Janina Altman, Haifa Tammy Amiel-Houser, Tel Aviv Chaya Amir, Tel Aviv Dr. Shmuel Amir, Tel Aviv Prof. Daniel Amit, Jerusalem/Rome Elinor Amit, Tel Aviv Prof. Yali Amit, Chicago Dr. Yossi Amitay, Kibbutz Gvulot Dr. Meir Amor, Montreal, Canada Dr. Yonathan (Jon) Anson, Beer Sheva Dr. Ariella Azoulay, Tel Aviv Prof. Shalom Baer, Jerusalem Prof. Ron Barkai, Tel Aviv Dr. Anat Barnea - Givat Chaim Ichud Prof. Dan Bar-On, Beer Sheva Dr. Avner Ben-Amos, Tel Aviv Tammy Ben-Shaul, Haifa Prof. Zvi Bentwich, Jerusalem Prof. Matania Ben-Artzi, Jerusalem Prof. Linda Ben-Zvi, Tel Aviv Avi Berg, Tel Aviv Dr. Louise Bethlehem, Hod Hasharon Prof. Anat Bilezki, Tel Aviv Uri Bitan, Beer Sheva Prof. Elliott Blass, Cambridge, MA Dr. Yair Boimel, Haifa Prof. Daniel Boyarin, Berkeley Prof. Victoria Buch, Jerusalem Shula Carmi, Jerusalem Smadar Carmon, Toronto Dr. Nicole Cohen-Addad, Tel Aviv Dr. Uri Davis, Sakhnin Athena Elizabeth DeRasmo, Haifa Ronit Dovrat, Firenze Prof. Aharon Eviatar, Tel Aviv Dr. Zohar Eviatar, Haifa Dr. Ovadia Ezra. Tel Aviv Prof. Emmanuel Farjoun, Jerusalem Pnina Firestone, Jerusalem Dr. Elizabeth Freund, Jerusalem Gadi Geiger, Cambridge, MA, USA Prof. Chaim Gans, Tel Aviv Dr. Amira Gelblum, Tel Aviv Prof. Avner Giladi, Haifa Prof. Rachel Giora, Tel Aviv Dr. Snait Gissis, Tel Aviv Dr. Daphna Golan-Agnon, Jerusalem Dr. Anat Goldrat-First, Netanya Dr. Ofra Goldstein-Gidoni, Tel Aviv Dr. Neve Gordon, Beer Sheva Dr. Yerah Gover, New York Prof. Charles W. Greenbaum, Jerusalem Dr. Lev Grinberg, Beer Sheva Ran HaCohen, Tel Aviv Prof. Uri Hadar, Tel Aviv Prof. Galit Hasan-Rokem, Jerusalem Dr. Sara Helman, Beer Sheva Prof. Hanna Herzog, Tel Aviv Prof. Ze'ev Herzog, Tel Aviv Prof. Hannan Hever, Jerusalem Dr. Tikva Honig-Parnass, Jerusalem Shirly Houser, Tel Aviv Tal Itzhaki, Haifa Prof. Eva Jablonka, Tel Aviv Andrea Jacobs, Austin, Texas Dr. Devorah Kalekin-Fishman, Haifa Aya Kaniuk, Tel Aviv Prof. Jacob Katriel, Haifa Prof. Tamar Katriel, Haifa Prof. Baruch Kimmerling, Jerusalem Dr. Gady Kozma, Rehovoth Dr. Haggai Kupermintz, Boulder, Colorado Dr. Ron Kuzar, Haifa Dr. Idan Landau, Beer Sheva Dr. John Landau, Jerusalem Dr. Ariela Lazar, Evanston Dr. Ronit Lentin, Dublin Prof. Micah Leshem, Haifa Erez Levkovitz, Jerusalem Prof. Rene Levy, Lausanne Prof. Shimon Levy, Tel Aviv Prof. Joyce Livingstone, Haifa Dr. Orly Lubin, Tel Aviv Dr. Ivonne Mansbach, Jerusalem Prof. Uri Maor, Tel Aviv Dr. Ruchama Marton, Tel Aviv Dr. Anat Matar, Tel Aviv Prof. Paul Mendes-Flohr, Jerusalem Rabbi Jeremy Milgrom, Jerusalem Jo Milgrom, Jerusalem Menucha Moravitz, Ramat-Gan Susy Mordechay, Giv'ataim Regev Nathansohn, Tel Aviv Prof. Adi Ophir, Tel-Aviv Omer Ori, Jerusalem Prof. Avraham Oz, Haifa Dr. Ilan Pappe, Haifa Gabriel Piterberg, UCLA Amos Raban, Tel Aviv Tali Raban, Tel Aviv Shakhar Rahav, Berkeley Dr. Haggai Ram, Beer Sheva Dr. Amnon Raz-Krakotzkin, Beer Sheva Prof. Zvi Razi, Tel Aviv Prof. Tanya Reinhart, Tel Aviv Prof. Fanny-Michaela Reisin, Berlin Prof. Freddie Rokem, Tel Aviv Prof. Henry Rosenfeld, Haifa Dr. Maya Rosenfeld, Jerusalem Ouzi Rotem, Philadelphia Hava Rubin, Haifa Amalia Sa'ar, Haifa Dr. Dalia Sachs, Haifa Dr. Hannah Safran, Haifa Tami Sarfatti, UCLA Dr. Nita Schechet, Jerusalem Hillel Schocken, Tel Aviv Ruben Seroussi, Tel Aviv Dr. Erella Shadmi, Mevasseret Zion Prof. Nomi Shir, Beer Sheva Dr. Miriam Shlesinger, Tel Aviv Aharon Shabtai, Tel Aviv Dr. Rann Smorodinsky, Haifa Orly Soker, Sapir-Jerusalem Dr. Yehiam Soreq, Tel Aviv Nurit Steinfeld, Jerusalem Prof. Gideon Toury, Tel Aviv Dr. Dudy Tzfati, Jerusalem Roman Vater, Tel Aviv Dr. Roy Wagner, Tel-Aviv Prof. Bronislaw Wajnryb, Haifa Tamar Yaron, Montreal & Kibbutz Hazorea Dr. Michael Yogev, Haifa Kim Yuval, Tel Aviv Prof. Moshe Zimmermann, Jerusalem Michal Zweig, Herzelia

http://jerusalem.indymedia.org/news/2002/09/78481.php




btw, i recall reading sthg about an israeli female journalist, writing for the prime israeli newspaper - would that be ha'aretz? -who is living amongst arabs in the palestinian territories, and who has a regular column where the israeli side is most definitely not let off lightly, quite the contrary, rs7, would you have any clue, or your wife, about details, and if that can be found online?

cheers
 
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