Doing Away with the Federal Reserve

an appropriate sequence of quotes from Thomas Jefferson posted by raa1010

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks...will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."
Thomas Jefferson - 1809

"To preserve the independence of the people, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we run into such debts as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our callings and our creeds, as the people of England are, our people, like them, must come to labor sixteen hours in the twenty-four, give the earnings of fifteen of these to the government for their debts and daily expenses, and the sixteenth being insufficient to afford us bread, we must live, as they now do, on oatmeal and potatoes, have no time to think, no means of calling the mismanagers to account, but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow- sufferers."
Thomas Jefferson 1816

"No earthly consideration could induce my consent to contract such a debt as England has by her wars for commerce, to reduce our citizens by taxes to such wretchedness, as that laboring sixteen of the twenty- four hours, they are still unable to afford themselves bread, or barely to earn as much oatmeal or potatoes as will keep soul and body together. And all this to feed the avidity of a few millionary merchants and to keep up one thousand ships of war for the protection of their commercial speculations."
Thomas Jefferson 1816
 
Quote from sjfan:

Every major economy in the world has a central bank that carries out monetary policy (the degree of independence from the government varies and is important. The US Fed is widely considered one of the more independent and effective instituations). We have the ECB, the Bank of Japan, the Bank of China, the Bank of England, etc...

There are reasons why the world at large came off the gold/silver standard. Commodities backed currency subjects the economy to wild business cycles due to uncontrollable appreciation and deprecation of metals. Fiat money and monetary policy are designed to combat these weakenesses.

You sound like a believer in the Fed. Well, you're supposed to. The Powers want it that way.

Spend a little time studying world economic history, then tell us what you think.
 
Quote from gnome:

You sound like a believer in the Fed. Well, you're supposed to. The Powers want it that way.

Spend a little time studying world economic history, then tell us what you think.

Um, I have. I have an advanced degree in economics, an undergrad degree in history, and a math degree. Unlike most people around here, I actually trade. I trade both credit and money market instruments for institutions in fairly respectible volumes so I care a lot about the fed - when it's right and when it's wrong. It's a vastly complicated subject full of generally well-intentioned people that some times gets it right and some time gets it wrong. The generalized "fed prints money and screws us all" is neither realistic nor right.
 
Quote from sjfan:

This is kind of funny actually... suppose we have the following:

An Econ Major: Burn your econ textbooks
An Econ Phd (I'm not one): It's more complicated than what undergrad textbooks says - there are things we understand and there are things we don't; here's what we think is true and here's what we are still arguing about.

I wonder if, when most people face these two statements, take the first one because it's easier to accept (it makes a certainty statement) and that it embodies the triumph of "common sense" over an "egg head".


Let's get real here - I did undergrad econ at Berkeley and the prof admitted that 'all econ professors suffer from not penis envy but physics envy' they try to convert everything into mathematical models, and then with arrogance defend their models even when it breaks down right before their eyes - does the word Laffer curve ring a bell?)


Quote from sjfan:
There are reasons why the world at large came off the gold/silver standard. Commodities backed currency subjects the economy to wild business cycles due to uncontrollable appreciation and deprecation of metals. Fiat money and monetary policy are designed to combat these weakenesses.


Yes that is what they taught us is econ 101

"The problem with most courses, is that what they teach is wrong." ~ Edward Deming

If you really do your research, you willl find that business cycles (the extreme ones we have now with huge bubbles and busts) occur because of the manipulation of money supply through Fed operations and the devil - fractional reserve banking
 
Quote from sjfan:

"... I care a lot about the fed - when it's right and when it's wrong....The generalized "fed prints money and screws us all" is neither realistic nor right...

Actually, it's quite realistic and pretty much right. Since the Fed was created, the $USD has lost somewhere between 93-99%, of its value (depending upon the quote source) through inflation. When you consider who is harmed by this and who benefits, there really is nothing right about it.

PS If I could kick just one man in the balls before I died, it would be Greenscam. (and that's considering what a crappy president Bush has been... and no, I don't like the DemoCraps, either.)
 
Quote from gnome:


PS If I could kick just one man in the balls before I died, it would be Greenscam.

Oh boy. Well, you know what - we aren't academics here right? Why get angry? Just trade your convictions. You think fed is a terrible institution that's out there to scam people? Cool - short the dollar, short the long rates, and short the equity market? And thank the fed while you count your profit (which you wisely converted into a basket of precious metals).
 
Quote from sjfan:

Oh boy. Well, you know what - we aren't academics here right? Why get angry? Just trade your convictions. You think fed is a terrible institution that's out there to scam people? Cool - short the dollar, short the long rates, and short the equity market? And thank the fed while you count your profit (which you wisely converted into a basket of precious metals).

Short the stock market? Are you kidding? I am long and strong.

The Fed is creating another huge asset bubble - in the stock market. Ride it up, just make sure you leave before the party is over
 
Quote from sjfan:

"... Just trade your convictions..."

Nope, I'm a technician. Trading "convictions" and "fundamentals" is a sucker's game for most traders.
 
Quote from Epiphany:


Yes that is what they taught us is econ 101

"The problem with most courses, is that what they teach is wrong." ~ Edward Deming

If you really do your research, you willl find that business cycles (the extreme ones we have now with huge bubbles and busts) occur because of the manipulation of money supply through Fed operations and the devil - fractional reserve banking

The weaknesses of the gold standard are apparent and obvious. They aren't teaching them incorrectly. The issues of fiat currency and monetary policy are two different beasts that get lumped together most of the time.

Getting off of the gold standard was the right thing to do. Current monetary policy is debatable, as is fractional reserve banking. Nobod ever said that controlling the money supply and fractional reserve banking were perfect, but they allow for certain things. Those things have been agreed to be worth the problems. In my estimation they are worth it, but every once in a while things get a bit crazy.
 
Quote from Epiphany:

Short the stock market? Are you kidding? I am long and strong.

The Fed is creating another huge asset bubble - in the stock market. Ride it up, just make sure you leave before the party is over

"Dow 100,000" is in the bag. Problem is that you might need all of it to buy a 6-pack of Charmin.

When the money and inflation go parabolic, so does the stock market. Unfortunately it all gets valued down to a near-worthless currency. So even though you accumulate $100 Million, it may be worth little more than Monopoly money. History is RIFE with examples. America is NOT going to be the exception. Only fools would ignore this.
 
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