Does Israel have the firepower to wipe Iran off the map?

In reply to FredBloggs;

No decent person wants to kill thousands of innocents. War is the greatest failure the human race falls heir to. However, the survival instinct is one of the most fundamental instincts of mankind. When you factor in WMD's to the equation you have about the worst dilemma a nation can face. When WMD's are combined with an ultra-radical class of Jihadists intent on killing mass numbers of people there seems to be only one alternative - massive use of force to insure against their success.

When nuclear weapons were first invented many scientists and politicians thought that their very presence would end all wars due to the threat of annihilation to an aggressor. With radical Islam, this is not necessarily the case. They view their death and martyrdom as victory! How do you deal with that when they have nukes or about to get them? Logic , appeasement and diplomacy will not work. You have to find them and kill them first, as well as many helpless innocents.

All these wackos need are 2 pieces of Uranium 235 big enough to total a little more than critical mass of an unreflected sphere( about 110 pounds), a steel tube and some explosives to make a gun-type atomic bomb ( the design that was used on Hiroshima). Can they smuggle the parts into Israel or the US? Yes! Will they use it and not fear the consequences? I wouldn't bet against it. All they need is Uranium ore (yellowcake) which costs about $ 20.00 per pound and some centrifuges to separate out the 0.3% U235 isotope from that ore and they have what they need to kill hundreds of thousands of people. They have the petro dollars, the technical knowhow and the will and all they need is more time. The Western world can't allow them that time. The risks are too great! We probably will have to do something before the next election cycle in 2008, unless Israel attacks first.
 
Quote from dugan:
Just wanted to make clear that the Bible verses presented were written to the Isrealites about the Isrealites. It was stating that they took a covenant with God and if they were to break that covenant than they could be put to death. Translated into the new testiment - without the baptism and repentance of sin and living for God - the wages of sin are death (you will not goto Heaven).

It is not stating that the Isrealites should go kill the asyrians and babylonians or any other group because they did not belive in the God of Isreal.

carry on.
BTW, thank you.
 
Well Iran has one very good reason for wanting an atomic bomb. Just having it would protect them from a US invasion.

Iran saw what the US did to Saddam and what the US hasn't done with Kim Jong Il.

And when it comes to Isreal, what right did the west have to create the nation of Isreal anyway? I know the holocaust was bad but that doesn't give them the right to steal someone elses' land. On this point I'd have to agree with Ahmadinejad. Isreal is a fabrication and it shouldn't exist. The world would definitely be a much more peaceful place.

And don't forget, while you're so busy supporting your government in their attempts to "protect" you that they are the ones who created the problem in the first place.
 
Quote from futures_shark:
And when it comes to Isreal, what right did the west have to create the nation of Isreal anyway?
I'm not sure about the secular statehood stuff, but as the HOLY LAND for religious practice for the Jewish people is unquestionably 100% Bible-mandated--and for that matter the One who created the world obviously has the right to decide which people get what land. The Bible is God's instruction booklet.

I obtained the following info:

1. JERUSALEM IS MENTIONED OVER 700 TIMES IN THE BIBLE, BUT NOT ONCE IS IT MENTIONED IN THE QUR'AN.

2. JEWS RECEIVED THE HOLD LAND AS PER THE MANDATE OF THE BIBLE IN 1272 B.C.E. JEWS RULED IT FOR A THOUSAND YEARS AND MAINTAINED A CONTINUOUS PRESENCE THERE FOR 3,300 YEARS.

3. THE ONLY ARAB RULE FOLLOWING CONQUEST IN 633 B.C.E. LASTED JUST 22 YEARS.

4. FOR OVER 3,300 YEARS, JERUSALEM WAS THE JEWISH CAPITAL. IT WAS NEVER THE CAPITAL OF ANY ARAB OR MUSLIM ENTITY. EVEN UNDER JORDANIAN RULE, (EAST) JERUSALEM WAS NOT MADE THE CAPITAL, AND NO ARAB LEADER CAME TO VISIT IT.

5. KING DAVID FOUNDED JERUSALEM; MOHAMMED NEVER SET FOOT IN IT.

6. JEWS PRAY FACING JERUSALEM; MUSLIMS FACE MECCA. IF THEY ARE BETWEEN THE TWO CITIES, MUSLIMS PRAY FACING MECCA, WITH THEIR BACKS TO JERUSALEM.
 
Where in your post does it say:

Hezbollah periodically fires Katusha rockets upon civilian targets within Israel's borders.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/searc...=1197515&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

Quote from Pabst:

Read it and weep, LoZZER, As reported on MSNBC on April, 18th:

Recent statements by the Palestinian government, Iran and Syria, including one by Hamas on Monday defending the suicide bombing, “are clear declarations of war, and I urge each and every one of you to listen carefully and take them at face value,” said Israel’s U.N. Ambassador Dan Gillerman.

“A dark cloud is looming above our region, and it is metastasizing as a result of the statements and actions by leaders of Iran, Syria, and the newly elected government of the Palestinian Authority,” Gillerman warned.

Gillerman told the Security Council that Monday’s “horrific act of terrorism as well as the ones that preceded it are the direct result of the new axis of terror” comprising Iran and Syria and the “terrorist organizations they have been harboring, nurturing, financing and supporting, namely Hamas and Hezbollah.”

Gillerman said recent statements by Hamas leaders refusing to recognize Israel, and by Iran’s president who said Saturday that Israel is “on the road to being eliminated,” represent “the stated goal of this axis of terror.”

Mansour urged the Security Council and the international community to condemn the Israeli attacks and take measures to halt the latest escalation.

He said “double standards” in which the international community remains silent as Israelis kill Palestinian civilians while the Palestinians are punished by economic and political isolation for democratically electing their government are unacceptable.

“Any calls on the Palestinian side will only be viewed as hypocritical if they are not met by equal pressure on the occupying power to put an end to its harsh military measures, to end its subjugation of the Palestinian people and accept their rights to live in freedom and security, under the protection of international law,” Mansour warned.

Israel warns of new 'world war'
Gillerman urged the international community and the Security Council “to take swift actions to try and prevent the next murder which is already on its way.”

Since January, he said, 11 major suicide terrorist attacks have been prevented and 90 potential suicide bombers have been arrested.

While Israel regrets any loss of life, it will not sit idly by and allow “human bombs” or rockets to penetrate the country and kill Israelis — and he asked whether every country wouldn’t do the same to eliminate a similar danger.

“The danger I must add, not just to Israel but also to the whole free world, and to civilization as we know it, as this axis of evil and terror sows the seeds of the first world war of the 21st century,” Gillerman said
 
Quote from Option Trader:

I'm not sure about the secular statehood stuff, but as the HOLY LAND for religious practice for the Jewish people is unquestionably 100% Bible-mandated--and for that matter the One who created the world obviously has the right to decide which people get what land. The Bible is God's instruction booklet.

I obtained the following info:

1. JERUSALEM IS MENTIONED OVER 700 TIMES IN THE BIBLE, BUT NOT ONCE IS IT MENTIONED IN THE QUR'AN.

2. JEWS RECEIVED THE HOLD LAND AS PER THE MANDATE OF THE BIBLE IN 1272 B.C. JEWS RULED IT FOR A THOUSAND YEARS AND MAINTAINED A CONTINUOUS PRESENCE THERE FOR 3,300 YEARS.

3. THE ONLY ARAB RULE FOLLOWING CONQUEST IN 633 B.C. LASTED JUST 22 YEARS.

4. FOR OVER 3,300 YEARS, JERUSALEM WAS THE JEWISH CAPITAL. IT WAS NEVER THE CAPITAL OF ANY ARAB OR MUSLIM ENTITY. EVEN UNDER JORDANIAN RULE, (EAST) JERUSALEM WAS NOT MADE THE CAPITAL, AND NO ARAB LEADER CAME TO VISIT IT.

5. KING DAVID FOUNDED JERUSALEM; MOHAMMED NEVER SET FOOT IN IT.

6. JEWS PRAY FACING JERUSALEM; MUSLIMS FACE MECCA. IF THEY ARE BETWEEN THE TWO CITIES, MUSLIMS PRAY FACING MECCA, WITH THEIR BACKS TO JERUSALEM.


1/ what has the past got to do with modern times as your buddy doodoo likes to say?

2/ what has what happened 3000 years ago got to do with today? surely what happened over the last 200 years is much more relevant? if so, perhaps ENGLAND SHOULD CLAIM ITS EMPIRE BACK!!!! how would you like that?

3/ ok, let the isralis have/share jerusalem, but only if they keep to the '67 borders.

4/ its all irrelevant anyhow. all these arguments are based on religion. the jews killed their prophet Jesus, so i dont really think their religion holds much water.
 
Quote from futures_shark:

Well Iran has one very good reason for wanting an atomic bomb. Just having it would protect them from a US invasion.

Iran saw what the US did to Saddam and what the US hasn't done with Kim Jong Il.

And when it comes to Isreal, what right did the west have to create the nation of Isreal anyway? I know the holocaust was bad but that doesn't give them the right to steal someone elses' land. On this point I'd have to agree with Ahmadinejad. Isreal is a fabrication and it shouldn't exist. The world would definitely be a much more peaceful place.

And don't forget, while you're so busy supporting your government in their attempts to "protect" you that they are the ones who created the problem in the first place.

excellent post.

i agree with 90% of this.

i do think israel has a right to exist though, BUT ONLY IF THEY KEEP TO THE '67 BORDERS ASIGNED TO THEM. if they cant do that - then maybe the world should relocate israel somewhere more appropriate - like outer siberia where they can go fight and kill innocent deer and other forest life in revenge and retaliation for the past.

lets face it, all the worlds troubles are based around the israeli conflict and the us support for israel. if israel could act like a decent civilised state, and look forward about the future in a positive way instead of moaning and bitching about how down trodden they are, the holocaust etc the world would be a much better place.

this is all a big hangover from wwii. its gone on for long enough.

give peace a chance.
 
Quote from futures_shark:

I know the holocaust was bad but that doesn't give them the right to steal someone elses' land.
I am sure you meant to say that they were buying the land, not stealing it. At least before the hostilities began. Right? If you can come up with a single fact of land theft prior to 1948 - I am all ears.
 
hi! drama queen in here. might wanna check theft of a nation by william w. baker.
belive it or nt ddddoo, i used to be a hard core supporter of your people, the more i met people like you, the more i see how you silence people who object to your policies, the more i see how you treat the miserable pals., and the more i watch your people's denial of injustice committed by them, the more i curse myself for ever being so fooled as to support you in the past.

i'll leave you with this.

'Moshe Smilansky, one of the pilgrim fathers of Zionism, published an article stating that: "When we came back to our country after having been evicted two thousand years ago, we called ourselves 'daring' and we rightly complained before the whole world that the gates of the country were shut. And now when they [Arab refugees] dared to return to their country where they lived for one thousand years before they were evicted or fled, they are called 'infiltrees' and shot in cold blood. Where are, Jews? Why do we not at least, with a generous hand, pay compensation to these miserable people? Where to take the money from? But we build palaces...instead of paying a debt that cries unto us from earth and heaven... And do we sin only against the refugees? Do we not treat the Arabs who remain with us as second-class
citizens? Did a single Jewish farmer raise his hand in the parliament in opposition to a law that deprived Arab peasants of their land? How does sit solitary, in the city of Jerusalem, the Jewish conscience!' (From Haven to Conquest, p. 834)
 
Fred, I'm not sure where you're coming from, but quite obviously you're still hanging around those microwaves.

Quote from FredBloggs:1/ what has the past got to do with modern times as your buddy doodoo likes to say?

2/ what has what happened 3000 years ago got to do with today? surely what happened over the last 200 years is much more relevant? if so, perhaps ENGLAND SHOULD CLAIM ITS EMPIRE BACK!!!! how would you like that?
The reality of modern times is unlike what you're saying as well.
In short, The Bible, history, and modern times all say otherwise. Regarding the former: you're not arguing with me, rather with God.

Quote from FredBloggs: 4/ its all irrelevant anyhow. all these arguments are based on religion. the jews killed their prophet Jesus, so i dont really think their religion holds much water.
Your arguing with the Pope who admitted it was all a big lie.
 
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