Does Israel have the firepower to wipe Iran off the map?

[Rearden Metal]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

Where in your post does it say:

Hezbollah periodically fires Katusha rockets upon civilian targets within Israel's borders.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/searc...=1197515&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

I'm not going to waste my time searching for 'evidence' of obvious, well known facts.

If you actually have doubts that Hezbollah periodically fires Katusha rockets upon civilian targets within Israel's borders, go ahead and say so. You'd probably be the first person anywhere to express such doubts, but go ahead...

http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2002/04/10/lebanon/index.html

 

[Option Trader]

Quote from FredBloggs:
excellent post.
lets face it, all the worlds troubles are based around the israeli conflict and the us support for israel.

Quote from Burtakus:
Are you serious about this?

My thoughts:
1. All the conflict that occurred in WWII between Germany and Allied forces is because allied forces had militaries.

2. All the conflict that exists between policemen and criminals is because the policemen carry guns.

3. All the discomfort suffered by cancer patients is because they are undergoing treatment.

4. All the financial problems in the third world countries comes because they insist upon eating food.

 

[g222]

Quote from Option Trader:

I'm glad to see you're sincere and not just bickering.

1. About the Bible determining who owns what land: Jews, Muslims, and Christians all believe the Bible (Torah) was given to the Jews at Mount Sinai by God. God created the world, and therefore owns the world; in the merit of owning the world, He decided to give Israel to the Jewish nation.

Good for you OT !!! As evidenced by the Bible, God gave that land to the Jews and they should indeed have a right to it.

Just like the Native Americans. In their 'scriptures', God also gave them certain lands, too. But those lands were taken away.

The 'headaches' the US enjoys in the middle east are a result of our support of the Israelis. Such support is due in no small part to the financial and political clout of Jews who are American citizens, but whose hearts ... whose allegiances ... are with Israel.

I would fully endorse our government's support of Israel in their fight to retain their God-given land ... just as soon as our government supports the Native Americans by requiring that ALL current owners - be they Jews or others - sign title to their real estate holdings back to these people.

 

[futures_shark]

Well OT, I do believe in inheritance but nobody inherited any land in Isreal. I only went back as far as the Ottoman Empire, which controlled the area until the League of Nations entrusted it to the United Kingdom to administer in the aftermath of World War I as a Mandate Territory. It was called Palestine when under British control. Then in 1948 the UK decided to create a Jewish State from a piece of land that was home to people of different religions.

What I really truly believe is at the root of terrorism is this fact. Western societies (Christianity?) created a jewish state in the middle of a predominantly Muslim area where they were least welcome.

I'm sure it didn't help that after being given their own state they went to war with their neighbors to expand their boundaries.

For me the problem really boils down to the State vs. the individual. In this particular instance, one State (UK) created another (Isreal) and together they have created havoc along with help from a third state(US). If governments were limited to only protecting property rights there would be no military conflicts.

 

[futures_shark]

Quote from g222:

...

I would fully endorse our government's support of Israel in their fight to retain their God-given land ... just as soon as our government supports the Native Americans by requiring that ALL current owners - be they Jews or others - sign title to their real estate holdings back to these people.

excellent point. The jews are missing out. If they had stayed scattered around in different countries they would be dominating the global casino business.

Just joking guys.

 

[maxpi]

I think Israel has the firepower. I doubt if they want to use it all at once since every one of their neighbors are bloodthirsty loonies that have a history of trying to kill them off.

If there is any one bunch of people in this world that I will never feel sorry for it is the Palestinians. I know some here in the US, they were Jew hating Nazi's in WW2, they lost the war, they lost some land, they are still Jew hating nazis. The ones I know are not even Muslims and when I mentioned that my dad was a Jew they threw a shit fit, I got food spilled on me, dirty looks, etc. I never knew what Jew hatred really was until I spent that afternoon with those assholes. I think the Jew hatred is what is driving me to make it in trading, it is an edge almost in itself!!

 

[futures_shark]

Quote from maxpi:

... I think the Jew hatred is what is driving me to make it in trading, it is an edge almost in itself!!

Well let's see...you guys control all of Hollywood, most of wall street, banks, the legal system. I think as a group you've recovered from persecution pretty good.

 

[dddooo]

Quote from futures_shark:

If the land had been purchased they would have every right to be there. But the jews did not purchase the state of isreal.

Jews were buying the land from local arabs, turkish and later british authorities prior to the partition of palestine, these facts are well known well documented and rarely disputed. The actual partition did not deprive anyone of their properties, arab families owning land on Israel's territory continued owning the same land after Israel was created.

Quote from futures_shark:

Do you have info to the contrary?

Actually I do and I posted it here on ET several months ago but just out of curiosity, you accused jews of stealing the land and now you want me to provide info to the contrary? Have you ever in your life heard of presumption of innocence? I already asked you if you have any evidence that jews were stealing land from arabs before 6 arabs armies invaded Israel in 1948?

Quote from futures_shark:
isreal.

PS It's not Isreal. It is your worst nightmare, it IsReal and it's called Israel.

 

[Madison]

Quote from dugan:

Just wanted to make clear that the Bible verses presented were written to the Isrealites about the Isrealites. It was stating that they took a covenant with God and if they were to break that covenant than they could be put to death. Translated into the new testiment - without the baptism and repentance of sin and living for God - the wages of sin are death (you will not goto Heaven).

It is not stating that the Isrealites should go kill the asyrians and babylonians or any other group because they did not belive in the God of Isreal.

thanks for your authoritative contribution, however, the OP argument was something like: the koran incites people to kill infidels, some iranians read the koran, therefore the US should drop bombs on iranians. no reference was made to the status of the infidels prior to their infidelity, nor of any translations.

in any event, are you arguing that a god ordering the murder of one type of infidel is somehow better than that of a different type of infidel? assuming that were true, how does that justify bombing iranians?

secondly, who were merathaim and pekod? amalek? negev?

"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD.
(Jeremiah 50:21-22)

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
(I Sam.15:2-3)

Thus Joshua struck all the land, the hill country and the Negev and the lowland and the slopes and all their kings. He left no survivor, but he utterly destroyed all who breathed, just as the LORD, the God of Israel, had commanded. (Joshua 10:40)

there may be more and better quotes, but the subject is too repulsive to waste any more time on. to preempt further silly argument about geneology technicalities or prior faith status - note a larger point: a literal reading of a book, cited as authority by the president of the US, may lead a reader to get the impression that "god" rather enjoys, or at least looks favorably, on the murder of infidels.

 

[Option Trader]

Clarification for Madison:

God created healthy cells and created cancer cells, but cancer were created for the purpose of getting rid of totally. Someone who doesn't understand would get the impression a doctor performing surgery is cruel and would leave the cancer behind, thinking he is being merciful, but will end up infecting the whole body.

The Christians say the source of evil in the world is Satan, which they view as an independant power. Jewish teachings say God created Satan, and Amalek, not as independant powers, rather carrying out a mission to present trials and tribulations.

Unlike the other 70 nations of the world, Amalek was a Biblical entity whose whole focus in the world is total rejection and active fighting of God's authority in the world, making Amalek the main cause of other nations to not accept Divine authority. War with Amalek is more an internal war, rejecting one's lack of willingness to conform to God's authority is step one. Step two is waging war with the Amalek nation (who is not intended to people today)--which was relevant in Biblical times--and will become relevant again at the time the Messiah comes.

There is a lot more to say about this. The key thing is you cannot "read the Bible" rather one must "learn the Bible" with the proper commentaries (there are more than hundreds of commentaries), as capturing a Divine doctrine on pen and paper is necessarily going to mean deap stuff. Approaching God's doctrine without the proper awe and respect, and then making one's own interpretations and conclusions of the Bible is equivalent to reducing the infinite & all-encompassing vastness of God's doctrine to the size of one's own brain.