Does Israel have right to exist in current form?

Does Israel have right to exist in its current form?

  • NO. 50 years of violence, Apartheid, spying on USA, AIPAC control, Mossad False flag

    Votes: 27 60.0%
  • Yes. I believe the next 50 years will somehow be different

    Votes: 18 40.0%

  • Total voters
    45
Quote from WAEL012000:

My tribe migrated to Palestine 2000 years ago.
You mean your tribe invaded the land of Israel 2000 years ago as Crusaders' mercenaries. And your tribe did not even live in Israel, having helped the crusaders wipe out local population your tribe settled in Syria, not in Israel. Isn't that so wael? Wael, why don't you take your tribe back to Yemen, maybe they'll call you the Yemeni Moses.
 
That's kind of like criticising South Africa for its problems, whilst ignoring that the rest of the continent is going down the tubes. Or complaining about democracy whilst ignoring the record of fascism, monarchy, anarchy etc.

Whatever Israel's flaws it is a better place to live than the vast majority of the countries surrounding it. I would rather be an Arab in Israel than an Arab in any Arab country.

In Israel you can vote, criticise the government, visit a brothel, practise any sexuality, set up your own media organisations, choose your religion or lack therefore and practise openly, marry or live with anyone from any background, have sex outside of marriage, share hotel rooms or apartments with women who you are not married to, drink booze all year round, criticise religion/God etc. In all the Arab countries you can't legally do these things, and many of them are punishable by death or long imprisonment.
 
Quote from dddooo:

You mean your tribe invaded the land of Israel 2000 years ago as Crusaders' mercenaries. And your tribe did not even live in Israel, having helped the crusaders wipe out local population your tribe settled in Syria, not in Israel. Isn't that so wael? Wael, why don't you take your tribe back to Yemen, maybe they'll call you the Yemeni Moses.

Realistically, though.. no matter what the reason for anybody's tribe having arrived in Israel/Palestine hundreds of years ago the descendants of those immigrants would only naturally come to know the land as their one and only homeland. Even the descendants of those who arrived, as you point out, to take advantage of the higher standard of living resulting from the influx of Jews during the 1917-1948 period have been there long enough that they can reasonably regard the land as their homeland.
 
ddooo:
>You mean your tribe invaded the land of Israel
>2000 years ago as Crusaders' mercenaries

Sort of like the forefathers here in the US ddooo?

I hate how quickly people who consider the US their homeland, forget how the US was "won".

Shameful.

JB
 
Quote from heidegger:

no matter what the reason for anybody's tribe having arrived in Israel/Palestine hundreds of years ago the descendants of those immigrants would only naturally come to know the land as their one and only homeland.
Fair enough but don't you think that it equally applies to the descendants of those jews who migrated to British Mandate Palestine during the previous century and who know Israel as their only homeland. The homeland that the Waels of the world don't want them to have.


Even the descendants of those who arrived, as you point out, to take advantage of the higher standard of living resulting from the influx of Jews during the 1917-1948 period have been there long enough that they can reasonably regard the land as their homeland.
In your previous post you said that " huge influx of Jews from Europe displaced the local Arabs". The point I was making was that there was an equally huge influx of Arabs from neighboring arab countries and therefore claiming that Jews displaced the local Arabs is historically inaccurate. Both groups migrated there, the land was eventually divided more or less equally into a jewish and arab state, no arab landowner was supposed to lose his private property even if it was on the Jewish side of the partition and vice versa. Of course the rest is also known, the Jews accepted the compromise, the Arabs tried repeatedly to drive the jews into the sea.
 
Quote from Cutten:

In Israel you can vote, criticise the government, visit a brothel, practise any sexuality, set up your own media organisations, choose your religion or lack therefore and practise openly, marry or live with anyone from any background, have sex outside of marriage, share hotel rooms or apartments with women who you are not married to, drink booze all year round, criticise religion/God etc. In all the Arab countries you can't legally do these things, and many of them are punishable by death or long imprisonment.

Many of the advantages you list ( boozing, visiting brothels, adultery, etc. ) are anathema to Muslims.
 
Quote from Turok:

ddooo:
>You mean your tribe invaded the land of Israel
>2000 years ago as Crusaders' mercenaries

Sort of like the forefathers here in the US ddooo?

I hate how quickly people who consider the US their homeland, forget how the US was "won".

Shameful.

JB
The Middle East was invaded and occupied by Arabic hordes but no one questions Syria's or Jordan's or Lebanon's right to exist. North America was invaded by Europeans and no one questions this country's or Canada's right to exist. No one questions Australia's right to exist, or New Zealand's or the entire South America's right to exist.

What's ironic is that the state of Israel has more legitimacy than any one of these countries as jews did live there at the time of the partition and they were there legally in accordance with the law of the land at that time. Moreover Israel unlike all those countries was created by an international body in accordance with international law, in essence by the will of the humanity. Yet Israel is the only country on the planet which right to exist is questioned on a daily basis.
 
Strawman, and total avoidance of my point.

JB

Quote from dddooo:

The Middle East was invaded and occupied by Arabic hordes but no one questions Syria's or Jordan's or Lebanon's right to exist. North America was invaded by Europeans and no one questions this country's or Canada's right to exist. No one questions Australia's right to exist, or New Zealand's or the entire South America's right to exist.

What's ironic is that the state of Israel has more legitimacy than any one of these countries as jews did live there at the time of the partition and they were there legally in accordance with the law of the land at that time. Moreover Israel unlike all those countries was created by an international body in accordance with international law, in essence by the will of the humanity. Yet Israel is the only country on the planet which right to exist is questioned on a daily basis.
 
Quote from dddooo:

Well... that's not entirely true

For many centuries, Palestine was a sparsely populated, poorly cultivated and widely-neglected expanse of eroded hills, sandy deserts and malarial marshes

PUBLIC opinion has been led by the Zionist propaganda machine to believe that Palestine was a neglected desolate land without a people in need of a people without a country and that developments and progress were the result of Zionist Initiative. As it will be proven below, this is not true.

The Holy Land, since the Crusader genocide, has been renowned for its olive groves and olive oil industry; and long before Zionist immigration began in 1920, Palestine was known as a citrus exporting country, famous for the Jaffa Orange. It is unknown when the citrus industry was first developed in Palestine but records shows that in 1912 ¿1913, Palestine had exported 1,608,570 cases of oranges to Europe.

As regards the hill regions, the country is covered with olive orchards, vineyards and other deciduous fruit trees; while the lands in the South were used for the cultivation of grain, and those in the Jordan Valley for the production of vegetables and fruits. Every inch of fertile soil was used to full capacity; and more and more rocky patches were being turned into orchards and groves. In that regards, its worth quoting Ahad Ha'Am, a leading Eastern European Jewish essayist who visited Palestine in 1891 for three months, when he tried to open many Jewish people eyes:

"We abroad are used to believe the Eretz Yisrael is now almost totally desolate, a desert that is not sowed ..... But in truth that is not the case. Throughout the country it is difficult to find fields that are not sowed. Only sand dunes and stony mountains .... are not cultivated." (Righteous Victims, p. 42)

Is it not ironic that Israel should today claim and take pride in the two principal agricultural industries, citrus and olives, started and developed over the centuries by the Arab victims of Israeli aggression?

Following is a list showing the major crops of Palestine before 1947 and the portion produced by Jews:

Citrus

The total area planted with citrus before the British mandated terminated was 281,448 dunums, (1 dunum = 1,000 sq. meters) of which 139,728 dunums were owned by the Jews.

The export of oranges was as follows: -

Period Orange boxes exported*
1908 - 1909 744,463
1910 - 1911 869,850
1912 - 1913 1,608,570
1938 - 1939 16,000,000

* A box of citrus on average contained 144 oranges.

Olives

During the 1944 - 1945, the area of the land planted with olives was 595,405 dunums, of which the Jews owned only 7,000 dunums or less than 1.2%. In the year 1944 - 1945, the amount of olive produced was 75,341 tons. The number of fruitful olives trees was estimated to be 6,000,000 trees and each tree produces 2 kg. during the draught periods and 12 kg. in the fruitful periods, and an average of 7 kg. per year.

Other agricultural products

The breakdown of the other agricultural production in 1944 is as the following:

Palestinian

---------------- Dunums-------Tons------ Value
Grains-------- 4,152,438----193,376--4,403,409
Vegetables---239,733------189,104--5,113,553
Fodder--------23,970--------20,827---156,847
Fruits---------355,709-------73,320----3,139,374
Olives---------592,546------78,287----3,320,320
Melons-------120,304 ----- 135,634-- 969,630
Total----------5,484,700---690,548---17,103,133
Percentage--92.8%-------71.25%---- 78.40%

Jewish

---------------Tons-----------Value-------Dunums
Grains-------16,579--------497,048----4,367,629
Vegetables-55,730--------1,745,870--279,940
Fodder------176,525------ 951,178----143,543
Fruits--------21,398------- 1,379,620--392,926
Olives-------1,182--------- 53,235------600,133
Melons----- 7,193----------83,975----- 125,979
Total------- 278,607-------4,710,926- 5,910,150
Percentage- 7.20%-------28.75%---- 21.60%


But then again... if the zionist dddooo is claiming that the land was "a sparsely populated, poorly cultivated and widely-neglected expanse of eroded hills, sandy deserts and malarial marshes" then it must be true!!


the regeneration of Palestine, and the growth of its population, came only after Jews returned in massive numbers. The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947.

This rapid growth was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states — constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel — by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible. The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region.

The Arab population increased the most in cities with large Jewish populations that had created new economic opportunities. From 1922 to _1947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Arabs_in_Palestine.html


From the early stages of Zionism to the present, Zionists have propagated the myth that Palestinians did not settle Palestine until it was later developed by the Israelis. To facilitate such disinformation, the Zionists adopted the following slogan to entice European Jewry to emigrate to Palestine:

"A land with no people is for a people with no land".

Had the Zionist leadership admitted the existence of an indigenous people, then they would have been obliged to explain how they intended to displace them. To disprove this baseless myth, let's quote Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister) who stated as early as 1918 that "Palestine is not an empty country". According to Shabtai Teveth (one of Ben-Gurion's official biographers), Ben-Gurion stated in an article published in 1918 that:

"Palestine is not an empty country . . . on no account must we injure the rights of the inhabitants."

Ben-Gurion often returned to this point, emphasizing that Palestinian Arabs had "the full right" to an independent economic, cultural, and communal life, but not political. (Shabtai Teveth, p. 37-38)

To destroy this baseless myth, check below to view a page that was scanned from a book which was conceived and edited by Ben-Gurion himself, stating that Jews made up 12% of the total Palestinian population as of 1914. It's not only that the majority of the Jews in Palestine were not Zionists (by Ben-Gurion's own admission), but they were also not even citizens of the country since many had recently fled anti-Semitic Tsarist Russia.

TheJewsInTheirLandByBenGurion-Page-292.jpg
 
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