Do large banks and institutions use TA to profit?

romik said:
The reason I believe Surf keeps on trashing TA...
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Not exactly...he only trashes TA in arguments outside of his friends. He's on record here (see my prior posts with quotes from him in the other thread) in specifically stating he has proof that his buddy Sykes is a profitable trader and surf proved it via posting the guy's broker statements.

Yet, cleverly, he didn't mention the guy uses TA and didn't mention that the guy is quoted in saying its part of his decision to decide what to trade. surf is also quoted in specifically stating "TA with other things" are useful. Sykes specifically explains why TA is useful in his trading and encourages others to use it.

surf is also on record (I documented it in the other thread) when asked about the ACD method...surf responded via saying its useful. That thread is the most active and largest TA thread here at Elitetrader.com and surf does not go there and bash.

If he truly believe that TA didn't work...wouldn't he at least attack the largest and most active TA thread not just at Elitetrader.com but its the biggest in comparison to other online trader forums.

Seriously, I'm not joking. Go to the thread and look at the infamous TA thread at the below link...surf is not there bashing TA when I last check last week...its his other buddy (no need to mention the name...we know who it is) that carries that thread. :D

http://www.elitetrader.com/et/index.php?threads/the-acd-method.170318/

TA works for them but not us...is that the real message by surf ?

P.S. I put surf on ignore about a week ago after a few of his lies...the smell got too bad. Also, I was told by someone that surf's is now on a leash here at ET...someone in ET's management said he'll be banned if continues debating TA. Maybe someone with some muscle in ET management has gotten tired of his hypocrisy.

Seriously, if TA doesn't work...it then shouldn't work for his friends. That seems logical to me or maybe the earth is still flat. :cool:

P.S.S. Reminder about the OPs question...

Do large banks and institutions use TA to profit? The answer is still YES and I'm very confident they'll still be using TA next year and giving lectures about TA within the industry and giving lectures to university students at some of the countries top universities within the U.S., Canada and Europe (see my University list in the other thread with specific names of universities around the world that has state of the art trading rooms). I'll release a new list soon for those newbie traders that are in college or preparing to go to college that keep coming to ET asking about careers in trading on the professional level. I'll also post an updated list of which institutional firms are sponsors of the trading rooms at specific universities. I'll also include a list of the best international university trading competitions for those wanting to see how the TA folks do against other "cases". Hint: TA folks are impressive in their performance.

I'll leave it alone after that...too many disbelievers.
 
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volpunter said:
A statement by a nobody who makes bold claims without the slightest factual support. And that in quora. I rest my case. I was hoping to raise the bar in terms of intellect and rigor on this site but I come more and more to the conclusion that this is a hopeless wish.
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Come on then, disprove it works mate, raise the bar. It's not the method used, it's money management, how many years you been at it to not know it?
 
I certainly won't waste my time to disprove all the hogwash put up on the net. I stated from my first post what my intent is: To attest to the fact that in my more than 13 years at banks and hedge funds I have never seen a profitable trader or trading desks or group that peruses technical analysis in the way the retail crowd defines it. (I will not go again into the definition, I made that clear in my previous posts). If reading moon phases works for someone then all the more power to them, I simply stated the fact that TA is not used at any of the institutions (all of which are tier 1 and tier 2 ibanks and hedge funds). Take it or leave it.

romik said:
Come on then, disprove it works mate, raise the bar. It's not the method used, it's money management, how many years you been at it to not know it?
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Well, you are an anonymous poster too, that has supposedly worked in the industry and in the position to speak for all pro traders, has his own definition of TA, can't prove that it doesn't work or that other pro traders reference historical data.
 
volpunter said:
I certainly won't waste my time to disprove all the hogwash put up on the net.
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And after all, would it not be incumbent upon the TA practitioner to prove its works? A thought that I have with respect to this matter is that many posting here at ET- both TA proponents and TA opponents focus on the "predictive" powers of TA. The pro's argue that TA predicts future price movements while those opposed argue (correctly, in my opinion) that TA does not predict future price movements.

I do use TA - both what some would call "price action" as well as some rather simple indicators derived from that price action through some rather basic mathematical manipulation of the data. I won't share how I use it, and I'm not here to offer proof that I use it to profit (or perhaps not to profit). What I will say is that at no time do I look at what price is doing or note what the current value of the indicators I use are and think that somehow I am beholding a predictive power on the chart. But I do use PA and TA, and I do use it everyday to place and manage trades.

But even at the very moment I am sending in an order to open a new position I do not for a moment believe I am acting on, and much less "making" a prediction. The trade will work or not to some degree, and neither PA nor TA can tell me before hand whether to expect a big win or full loss or small win or small loss or a breakeven result. TA's inability to predict does not, as I use it, diminish its value and effectiveness as tool for analyzing potential trading opportunities for me.

The final thought to this is that most folks will never benefit from TA as a tool to the extent possible because most are stuck on "prediction," which, in my opinion, indicates that most are stuck, more or less, on a desire to avoid loss over all else.
 
zbestoch said:
And after all, would it not be incumbent upon the TA practitioner to prove its works? A thought that I have with respect to this matter is that many posting here at ET- both TA proponents and TA opponents focus on the "predictive" powers of TA. The pro's argue that TA predicts future price movements while those opposed argue (correctly, in my opinion) that TA does not predict future price movements.

I do use TA - both what some would call "price action" as well as some rather simple indicators derived from that price action through some rather basic mathematical manipulation of the data. I won't share how I use it, and I'm not here to offer proof that I use it to profit (or perhaps not to profit). What I will say is that at no time do I look at what price is doing or note what the current value of the indicators I use are and think that somehow I am beholding a predictive power on the chart. But I do use PA and TA, and I do use it everyday to place and manage trades.

But even at the very moment I am sending in an order to open a new position I do not for a moment believe I am acting on, and much less "making" a prediction. The trade will work or not to some degree, and neither PA nor TA can tell me before hand whether to expect a big win or full loss or small win or small loss or a breakeven result. TA's inability to predict does not, as I use it, diminish its value and effectiveness as tool for analyzing potential trading opportunities for me.

The final thought to this is that most folks will never benefit from TA as a tool to the extent possible because most are stuck on "prediction," which, in my opinion, indicates that most are stuck, more or less, on a desire to avoid loss over all else.
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No matter what backtested statistically proven method you may be using the future will always be an unknown factor, although we all expect a trade to work out in our favour, so luck is of great importance, no matter what system is being used. Example would be selling a market and getting stopped out a few ticks/points away from an actual reversal, bad luck. Correct analysis, bad luck on stop placement.

Let's not mix risk/trade management into this discussion, although absence of which is any system killer.

I still ask to explain rationally why on the chart that I posted previously there were many occasions when price bounced from previous reaction lows/highs, please do not point out hindsight analysis, I certainly am not new to this. Are you disputing that the simplest technique of all in TA of selling a potential double top/buying potential double bottom, of course implementing proper risk/trade management strategy, does work in the real world?

index.php
 
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romik said:
Well, you are an anonymous poster too, that has supposedly worked in the industry and in the position to speak for all pro traders, has his own definition of TA, can't prove that it doesn't work or that other pro traders reference historical data.
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I back up what he says based on my experience, studies and knowledge.

Just to set the record straight, most of what poster WRB says about marketsurfer is false or taken out of context.

Peace
surf
 
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