Do large banks and institutions use TA to profit?

[volpunter]

Professor Na Wang of Hoftstra??? What? WHo is Professor Na Wang and what the hell is Hofstra? An academic institution? Ranked how exactly? Rank 453 out of the top 1000 community colleges? Oh wait I just checked, it is ranked #135. LOL

Dude, please, spare us with your BS.

I posted in another thread here at ET the specific names of institutional trading firms that uses TA for decision making. I also noted that not all institutional trading firms on this planet are using TA...just some of them are.

In addition, I noted which specific firms have won or honor for their TA along with a direct link to one particular award...there are many but I only noted one because I personally know one of them. Further, I noted what specific departments that TA folks are within at one specific institutional trading firm...it ain't the marketing department.

Continuing, I specifically noted the name and year of a specific institutional trading firm that did not lay off anyone of its TAs while laying off many managers in other departments during the financial crisis (fiasco) of 2008 - 2009 along with noting the TAs were given "bonuses"...once again, individuals not located in the marketing department.

Further, specifically noted in a reply at this forum, those firms that used TA...they don't use it like retail traders do and its not as important for these firms because they have more important ways to make their decisions about a product. Yet, they still need to know the "when to do it" and that's when they get their advice from the TA folks...those that use TA.

Other firms that do not use TA...I'm not too familiar with them.

Those firms that I specifically noted earlier in the other thread...their TA folks are using other things with their TA...arguably more important. Its the major difference in how retail traders and institutional traders use/view TA.

Simply, for the debitspread guy to ask you which one is profitable is really just an argumentative question that can't be answer or impossible to answer considering these firms that use TA are not exclusively using it and their initial decisions to trade a specific product is not initiated via TA.

The more I think about it, the fact that he asked you that question in the way he asked it...he already knew there's no way to answer it...clever little cat he is.

P.S. He asked about Hedge Funds and I replied about institutional trading firms (e.g. Credit Suisse, BNP and JpMorgan Chase). There's a difference right there considering they have completely different business models.

P.S.S. You can tell the debitspread guy to contact Professor Na Wang of Hoftstra for a list of Hedge Funds that use TA. Wang and other professors did an extensive study via comparison the performance of Hedge Funds that used TA versus Hedge Funds that did not use TA...

Guess what, Hedge Funds that used TA outperformed those that did not use it by 5%. It doesn't seem like much but in the world of Hedge Funds...5% is huge.

Note: Hofstra was specifically named in a prior message by me in a list of top universities with state of the art trading rooms that's sponsored by some of the world's top institutional firms, hedge funds or banks. These firms sometimes send guest speakers to the university to give lectures/classes on TA, quants, economics, behavior finance and many other things.

Note: As noted about institutional firms...cross the street into the world of Hedge Funds that use TA...it ain't the only thing they're using nor do they exclusively rely on TA but they do use it and outperform those that think its voodoo.

P.S.S.S. This forum has a strange group of non believers and some of them say they work inside the industry...I find that very hard to believe because the above info is common knowledge from inside the industry.

Anyone willing to do research can review my prior messages here at ET for specific names of any thing I was vague in the above. If not or you think TA is bullshit...don't forget...many at one time thought the earth was flat too.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the Hedge Fund study, oddly was published in the Journal of Financial and Quantitative Analysis along in other professional journals/magazines within the financial industry.

 

[JTrades]

In hindsight TA looks promising but it has never ever once held up under backtest and tough scrutiny.

Not that I'm doubting your expertise, but who exactly is conducting these backtests and doing the scrutinizing?

When the experienced TA guys in this thread conduct their "forward tests" every week, they come out positive more often than not. Please tell me if I'm wrong, TA guys.

 

[romik]

but it has never ever once held up under backtest and tough scrutiny.

Neither would have your method & there are valid reasons for it. Can you backtest & automate Soros's decision making?

 

[wrbtrader]

Professor Na Wang of Hoftstra??? What? WHo is Professor Na Wang and what the hell is Hofstra? An academic institution? Ranked how exactly? Rank 453 out of the top 1000 community colleges? Oh wait I just checked, it is ranked #135. LOL

Dude, please, spare us with your BS.

I gave you a bone you silly idiot...just one name out of many.

In fact, if your research was adequate...you will see he is just one professor out of 14 professors from across several universities involved in the study. Guess what...where does MIT, Penn State (smeal) business school, Harvard, Univ Texas and Brown rank on your ranking list ?

Note: I'm assuming you're looking at the business rank list and not social studies ranking list.

Which universities from the above have a state of the art trading room and which have had at least three TA lecturers from top institutional firms from around the world...per year ???

Now tell me the names of the other Professors from those universities involved in the academic study or go back under neath your slimy rock ???

P.S. Fact remains, an academic study was done and the results are in fact publish in top professional journals/magazines...well respected within the industry. Simply, the names of those and different universities conducting the study isn't the point.

The point is that Hedge Funds use TA...that's the OPs answer to his question...all other discussions not on topic...just argumentative. Simply, anybody denying that Hedge Funds do not use TA in their decision making process...the earth must still be flat.

Once again, try staying on topic...do they use TA ??? Yes and not for marketing purposes and they outperform those firms that do not use TA. Now go scratch that small brain of yours and figure out when do those Hedge Funds using TA typically outperform those that do not use TA.

***Unfortunately, its something most retail traders using TA does not take into account in their trading via TA. This is just one of the things that separates how professional firms use TA versus the typical ET member that uses TA. Thus, its only logical to assume even the TA basher doesn't view TA the same way as professional firms that use TA.***

P.S.S. Two last questions if you know how to do research...what's the names of the +5000 Hedge Funds involved in the study and were there any foreign Hedge Funds studied...I'll make it easy for you...just name 10 from the +5000 or how many of the +5000 use TA ???

Which hedge fund that uses TA is rank in the top 50 of all hedge funds for the past 5 years ???

Reminder: They use TA but its not the only thing they use and its not the most important thing they use...but they surely use it in their decision making process.

P.S.S.S. Welcome to my ignore list for ETs the earth is flat believers.

 

[londonkid]

Meanwhile goldman went long the 8/14ema crossover lol.

 

[wrbtrader]

Meanwhile goldman went long the 8/14ema crossover lol.

Goldman Sachs...only if its fixed income or currencies and there's no ema crossover involved.

They have a few folks out in Europe that are members of the STA (Society of Technical Analysts). One of them gave an excellent lecture once on volatility (VIX) and risk on the FTSE100.

P.S. No names given...we can just call him the guy at Trade Desk xXx like the Vin Diesel action hero movie @ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0295701/

 

[volpunter]

I proved in another thread at length that the concept of "forward tests" does not even exists. There is so much garbage that snake oil salesmen sneaked into the arena of algorithmic trading that it becomes rather bizzare. I had a lengthy argument with even an author of backtesting books (think his name was Benny or something). Turned out that he is a Scharlatan who never made a dime other than selling books who constantly invented new terms for concepts that either never work or never existed and are of no use whatsoever. It also did not help that he inflated his academic record. Forward testing or walkforward testing is a totally flawed concept and nobody who really is worth his two cents in algorithmic trading (especially nobody at quant desks) uses this BS.

Not that I'm doubting your expertise, but who exactly is conducting these backtests and doing the scrutinizing?

When the experienced TA guys in this thread conduct their "forward tests" every week, they come out positive more often than not. Please tell me if I'm wrong, TA guys.

 

[volpunter]

Which is precisely why some strategies and ideas cannot be automated. I do trade some discretionary strategies that could not be systematized.what has this to do with TA. You shoot left and right my friend but could not even forecast whether markets will go up or down based on your "surefire" chart you accused me of not seeing the chart patterns within. This is the problem with you TA folks. I agree with another poster who said that there is no proof , meaning, no verified positive performance metric of any fund that claims to use TA in the retail sense, in public domain. Nothing. Not one proof. Yet you try to convince others. How? If it works for you then simply shut up and move along. But accusing others and making bold claims calls for proof even the most minimal one.

Neither would have your method & there are valid reasons for it. Can you backtest & automate Soros's decision making?

 

[volpunter]

A) typing words in bold does not make your previous post any less BS.
B) you mentioned one university; Hofsta or whatever it's called. It's way below average ranked university I and most others have never heard of. I studied at CMU and traded for more than a decade at banks and hedge funds including New York and had to google to find out this shitty uni is in Long Island. Now you turn around and rattle off a list of other universities. For what purpose? What do you try to prove even?
C) TA in the retail sense is not practiced or utilized at any hedge fund or prop desk at ibanks that ever made money. Stop making up lies or incorrect claims that you simply cannot back up because such funds simply do not exist. You can divert from the topic as much as you like and talk universities but it won't change this fact.
D) show us what aspects of technical analysis that retail traders have access to lead to profitable trading. I am waiting ....in fact I have been waiting for years and have been shown none. Maybe you should also see there are some who have a lot more professional experience than you had and may have seen a thing or two above and beyond the horizon you are staring at. Retail accessible TA among successful traders was unfortunately not one of such things.

But as always please prove us all wrong. Please provide the evidence to the contrary. I am happy to take it serious and be corrected if being wrong.

Ps: got it , anyone who challenges the tin foil hat wearing TA disciples is put on ignore. Well at least we won't hear much more about some studies or trading labs at Hofsta ;-)

I gave you a bone you silly idiot...just one name out of many.

In fact, if your research was adequate...you will see he is just one professor out of 14 professors from across several universities involved in the study. Guess what...where does MIT, Penn State (smeal) business school, Harvard, Univ Texas and Brown rank on your ranking list ?

Note: I'm assuming you're looking at the business rank list and not social studies ranking list.

Which universities from the above have a state of the art trading room and which have had at least three TA lecturers from top institutional firms from around the world...per year ???

Now tell me the names of the other Professors from those universities involved in the academic study or go back under neath your slimy rock ???

P.S. Fact remains, an academic study was done and the results are in fact publish in top professional journals/magazines...well respected within the industry. Simply, the names of those and different universities conducting the study isn't the point.

The point is that Hedge Funds use TA...that's the OPs answer to his question...all other discussions not on topic...just argumentative. Simply, anybody denying that Hedge Funds do not use TA in their decision making process...the earth must still be flat.

Once again, try staying on topic...do they use TA ??? Yes and not for marketing purposes and they outperform those firms that do not use TA. Now go scratch that small brain of yours and figure out when do those Hedge Funds using TA typically outperform those that do not use TA.

***Unfortunately, its something most retail traders using TA does not take into account in their trading via TA. This is just one of the things that separates how professional firms use TA versus the typical ET member that uses TA. Thus, its only logical to assume even the TA basher doesn't view TA the same way as professional firms that use TA.***

P.S.S. Two last questions if you know how to do research...what's the names of the +5000 Hedge Funds involved in the study and were there any foreign Hedge Funds studied...I'll make it easy for you...just name 10 from the +5000 or how many of the +5000 use TA ???

Which hedge fund that uses TA is rank in the top 50 of all hedge funds for the past 5 years ???

Reminder: They use TA but its not the only thing they use and its not the most important thing they use...but they surely use it in their decision making process.

P.S.S.S. Welcome to my ignore list for ETs the earth is flat believers.

 

[volpunter]

No names given....lol. top secret of course. Dude you are outright bizarre. You can give out the name ...no need to panic I won't abduct him and squeeze the holy grail out of him. In case you are too dumb to see those TA chaps at ibanks are kept around purely for marketing and client service purposes. You clearly never seem to have worked at any such firms.




[TE="wrbtrader, post: 4186782, member: 180762"]Goldman Sachs...only if its fixed income or currencies and there's no ema crossover involved.

They have a few folks out in Europe that are members of the STA (Society of Technical Analysts). One of them gave an excellent lecture once on volatility (VIX) and risk on the FTSE100.

P.S. No names given...we can just call him the guy at Trade Desk xXx like the Vin Diesel action hero movie @ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0295701/

[/QUOTE]