I don't see any fund(s) named in your reply, so apparently your answer is "no, I can't, but I don't want to admit it."
Do large banks and institutions use TA to profit?
- Thread starter londonkid
- Start date
I don't see any fund(s) named in your reply, so apparently your answer is "no, I can't, but I don't want to admit it."
Well, you aren't being specific either, you just state that they don't implement TA, who are they?
what do you use, debitspreads?
cheers
cheers
Eddie, Debit is either Surf's alias or his mate or could even be his wife, defensive of every Surf's post/thread. Latter post confirms association.
So say that some or even all banks, hedge funds or whatever use TA in one form or another. Does the fact that they swing a bigger bat than we do automatically make them the world's experts on TA? They, and security analysts can have access to fundamental information that's not available to retail investors. But technical info is there for all to see. Can a trader at a bank analyze IBM's chart any better than you or I, or my granny can?
I once was a member of an association with an interest in TA in which many members were bankers, trust fund employees and the like. Most were no more knowledgeable regarding TA than many found here on ET. So while they can outdo us in some areas,
when it comes to pure TA, we can hold our own. And if they were as skilled as many think they are, we would find it almost impossible to buy/sell at the good prices, wouldn't we?
I once was a member of an association with an interest in TA in which many members were bankers, trust fund employees and the like. Most were no more knowledgeable regarding TA than many found here on ET. So while they can outdo us in some areas,
when it comes to pure TA, we can hold our own. And if they were as skilled as many think they are, we would find it almost impossible to buy/sell at the good prices, wouldn't we?
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I posted in another thread here at ET the specific names of institutional trading firms that uses TA for decision making. I also noted that not all institutional trading firms on this planet are using TA...just some of them are.
In addition, I noted which specific firms have won or honor for their TA along with a direct link to one particular award...there are many but I only noted one because I personally know one of them. Further, I noted what specific departments that TA folks are within at one specific institutional trading firm...it ain't the marketing department.
Continuing, I specifically noted the name and year of a specific institutional trading firm that did not lay off anyone of its TAs while laying off many managers in other departments during the financial crisis (fiasco) of 2008 - 2009 along with noting the TAs were given "bonuses"...once again, individuals not located in the marketing department.
Further, specifically noted in a reply at this forum, those firms that used TA...they don't use it like retail traders do and its not as important for these firms because they have more important ways to make their decisions about a product. Yet, they still need to know the "when to do it" and that's when they get their advice from the TA folks...those that use TA.
Other firms that do not use TA...I'm not too familiar with them.
Those firms that I specifically noted earlier in the other thread...their TA folks are using other things with their TA...arguably more important. Its the major difference in how retail traders and institutional traders use/view TA.
Simply, for the debitspread guy to ask you which one is profitable is really just an argumentative question that can't be answer or impossible to answer considering these firms that use TA are not exclusively using it and their initial decisions to trade a specific product is not initiated via TA.
The more I think about it, the fact that he asked you that question in the way he asked it...he already knew there's no way to answer it...clever little cat he is.
P.S. He asked about Hedge Funds and I replied about institutional trading firms (e.g. Credit Suisse, BNP and JpMorgan Chase). There's a difference right there considering they have completely different business models.
P.S.S. You can tell the debitspread guy to contact Professor Na Wang of Hoftstra for a list of Hedge Funds that use TA. Wang and other professors did an extensive study via comparison the performance of Hedge Funds that used TA versus Hedge Funds that did not use TA...
Guess what, Hedge Funds that used TA outperformed those that did not use it by 5%. It doesn't seem like much but in the world of Hedge Funds...5% is huge.
Note: Hofstra was specifically named in a prior message by me in a list of top universities with state of the art trading rooms that's sponsored by some of the world's top institutional firms, hedge funds or banks. These firms sometimes send guest speakers to the university to give lectures/classes on TA, quants, economics, behavior finance and many other things.
Note: As noted about institutional firms...cross the street into the world of Hedge Funds that use TA...it ain't the only thing they're using nor do they exclusively rely on TA but they do use it and outperform those that think its voodoo.
P.S.S.S. This forum has a strange group of non believers and some of them say they work inside the industry...I find that very hard to believe because the above info is common knowledge from inside the industry.
Anyone willing to do research can review my prior messages here at ET for specific names of any thing I was vague in the above. If not or you think TA is bullshit...don't forget...many at one time thought the earth was flat too.
Edit: I forgot to mention that the Hedge Fund study, oddly was published in the Journal of Financial and Quantitative Analysis along in other professional journals/magazines within the financial industry.
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The reason I believe Surf keeps on trashing TA because eventually he will roll out Price Drivers to the public as a counter product to "useless TA", he needs to convince struggling traders to start buying his service at some stage, can he prove that his PDs work by provision of statements? You won't get them. How CAN he possibly prove that TA doesn't work apart from throwing low success rate stats? That rate doesn't include just TA traders. Teach folks risk and trade management and whether it's TA, FA, SA or 'my mate told me' odds of making it would be significantly improved. Very sophisticated system followers have been and gone due to extreme leveraging.
my algorithms rely on micro market dynamics such as velocity (volume based directional moves), I take into account sizes of orders and changes in order books, for discretionary books I trade based on changes in fundamentals, news, in short I focus on cash and derivatives of currencies and fixed income instruments and for me economic release data, news events, political statements matter a lot, even intraday. I could not care less what some define as retracement levels, moving average crossovers, death crosses, support or resistance levels simply because markets are dynamic and a support level yesterday will not prove to be even remotely the same support level today. In hindsight TA looks promising but it has never ever once held up under backtest and tough scrutiny.
Thanks