Desperation
- Thread starter HappyGoLucky
- Start date
There were others who responded as well. "T" has been sending me annotated charts (he trades YM using S&R). I have been watching his charts, but have been unable to do more than that, due to the reasons I cited above. He asked for nothing upfront, until I would be successful using his methods, at which point we could come up with some suitable compensation.
GTS, I believe you are highly cynical. There are a lot of good people out there. I, for one, don't think there's anything wrong with helping someone else out, and would do so gladly were the tables turned. I believe ultimately when you help others, it comes back to you in some way or another.
In fact, if you open your eyes here on ET you will find real, successful traders helping others every day. You don't even have to go to your PM box or invent a hard-luck story. Just show a willingness to listen and learn.
The thread gave me the chance as well to meet some veteran ET posters (in a virtual sense), which was a fine experience. Again, I won't name names, and after the way I was derided (by granted only a few), I don't blame them for not posting their personal experiences on-thread. But in PM correspondence, they were refreshigly candid about their own experiences; how hard they had to work to become profitable, their failures, etc.
More recently, two amazing posts from Lescor and downrivertrader, that really made me think. Traderdragon's post also got me thinking, no doubt. I hope there is some truth in austinp's rebuttal, that the human trader brings something new to the game that can't be quantified by even a room-full of supercomputers. Because if my only chance in trading is to put my computer programming skills up against the likes of Traderdragon, I'm in trouble.
It didn't escape me that this thread spawned a Desperation2 thread. I don't think it's particularly shameful to ask for help when that help comes in the form of information. If you look around the internet, you will see all kinds of people giving help in all kinds of situations, out of the goodness of their hearts, or even for the satisfaction of knowing you've helped someone else. I daresay people-helping-people may be one of, if not the, mainstay of the internet. I, for one, don't see it as being the same as asking for handouts etc. I also don't see anything particularly mature about gloating in other people's difficulties. I don't think arrogance is a trait that goes well with trading, and when people who claim to be successful traders act arrogantly, immaturely, and callously, I question whether they are no more than posers.
Going over some other posts:
Thunderdog, even before you posted to this thread, you had my respect as a trader and a person. This post, however, has to be one of ET's all-time classics for its eloquence, and I take the liberty of repeating it here for posterity:
<em>"Have you ever noticed how many Little Emperors there are among us who immediately pop up out of the woodwork the moment someone renders himself vulnerable with refreshing honesty and asks for guidance? Rather than address the specific issues raised by the poster, these omnipotents proceed to pass judgment on the lives of people about whom they have read a scant few paragraphs. At the drop of a hat, they will advise you of the limitations that will haunt you for the remainder of your natural life. Oh, what splendid lives these big-picture visionaries must lead from their lofty perches! On the other hand, perhaps they assert themselves here in a manner than they cannot, or dare not, attempt in real life. I think I'll go with door number 2.
P.S. The rest of us can only hope that they trade as adroitly as they dispense advice."</em>
MartyS: As you can see, I did follow your advice. I'm happy I did so. Same to fedge, who said essentially the same thing a few posts earlier.
GTS, I believe you are highly cynical. There are a lot of good people out there. I, for one, don't think there's anything wrong with helping someone else out, and would do so gladly were the tables turned. I believe ultimately when you help others, it comes back to you in some way or another.
In fact, if you open your eyes here on ET you will find real, successful traders helping others every day. You don't even have to go to your PM box or invent a hard-luck story. Just show a willingness to listen and learn.
The thread gave me the chance as well to meet some veteran ET posters (in a virtual sense), which was a fine experience. Again, I won't name names, and after the way I was derided (by granted only a few), I don't blame them for not posting their personal experiences on-thread. But in PM correspondence, they were refreshigly candid about their own experiences; how hard they had to work to become profitable, their failures, etc.
More recently, two amazing posts from Lescor and downrivertrader, that really made me think. Traderdragon's post also got me thinking, no doubt. I hope there is some truth in austinp's rebuttal, that the human trader brings something new to the game that can't be quantified by even a room-full of supercomputers. Because if my only chance in trading is to put my computer programming skills up against the likes of Traderdragon, I'm in trouble.
It didn't escape me that this thread spawned a Desperation2 thread. I don't think it's particularly shameful to ask for help when that help comes in the form of information. If you look around the internet, you will see all kinds of people giving help in all kinds of situations, out of the goodness of their hearts, or even for the satisfaction of knowing you've helped someone else. I daresay people-helping-people may be one of, if not the, mainstay of the internet. I, for one, don't see it as being the same as asking for handouts etc. I also don't see anything particularly mature about gloating in other people's difficulties. I don't think arrogance is a trait that goes well with trading, and when people who claim to be successful traders act arrogantly, immaturely, and callously, I question whether they are no more than posers.
Going over some other posts:
Thunderdog, even before you posted to this thread, you had my respect as a trader and a person. This post, however, has to be one of ET's all-time classics for its eloquence, and I take the liberty of repeating it here for posterity:
<em>"Have you ever noticed how many Little Emperors there are among us who immediately pop up out of the woodwork the moment someone renders himself vulnerable with refreshing honesty and asks for guidance? Rather than address the specific issues raised by the poster, these omnipotents proceed to pass judgment on the lives of people about whom they have read a scant few paragraphs. At the drop of a hat, they will advise you of the limitations that will haunt you for the remainder of your natural life. Oh, what splendid lives these big-picture visionaries must lead from their lofty perches! On the other hand, perhaps they assert themselves here in a manner than they cannot, or dare not, attempt in real life. I think I'll go with door number 2.
P.S. The rest of us can only hope that they trade as adroitly as they dispense advice."</em>
MartyS: As you can see, I did follow your advice. I'm happy I did so. Same to fedge, who said essentially the same thing a few posts earlier.
I think you completely missed my point, I'm not questioning the people that PM'd you.
I'm wondering if this will encourage other people to make up stories about their hard-luck (lie) in order to entice other would-be mentors to PM them with offers of trading help. That would be sad.
Also please note that I'm not saying that your story is made-up, just worried about copycat posters who might see what happened after your post and try to replicate it.
Anyway, it sounds like you've turned a corner; good luck with your trading.
No, I totally understood your point. I was just saying that, a) there's a lot of help out there without having to make-up hard-luck stories. b) I think only pretty warped people would do so, and you'd probably pick up on it. c) Even if they do, nobody is forcing anyone to help, and if they do choose to help, even some person who felt compelled to make up a story in order to ask, they may still gain from the experience. Thanks at any rate for taking the time to respond.
HGL
HGL
bluedemon77
Guest
Since I've been participating here, I've noticed ET people fall into 3 categories:
-- clueless newbies like myself
-- curmudgeons only too willing to point out how likely we are to fail but won't tell us how to succeed
-- people willing to share their knowledge to help others be more successful
In the case of HGL, I can fully understand reaching out for help. I can understand why a successful trader would not be motivated to help a newbie, especially when the reward for that on ET is often an argument. I can also understand why somebody with a kind heart would help a struggling newbie move in the right direction. But I cannot understand the motivation of anyone to post messages that basically say "I've found the secret to successful trading and I'm making a bazillion dollars a day with it, but I'm not going to tell anybody else how I do it, just how clever I am for developing it." I also cannot understand HGL's motivation to tell us all about this mysterious angel who gave him the key to being successful. Then, how despite his agreement to keep this advice confidential and being too busy with his new job to trade, he goes out of his way to keep this thread going. I don't get it. What's the point?
Chuck
That thread was started by my modesty, and was called a classic by some members. But beside that, you obviously missed its point:
There is a HUGE difference between asking for directions to X street or what kind of monitor should you buy and putting you up in a hotel for the rest of your life for free.
Information is the most important commodity. The correct and timely information can save your life, supposed you have cancer and it is recognized early. It can also make money for you.
You basicly asked for information about a skill that can make you earn a living. Give me just one example where you can get similar information for free, because I would like to give it to homeless or unemployed people.
You don't go to a university and ask them to educate you for free, do you? And you don't ask a carpenter to teach you carpentry either.
If you got useful advice from ETers, good for you. I assume it was more the pity factor rather then anything else, because you are not the first to ask for mentoring. I think I gave you useful advice in this thread too.
I forgot the details of your story and I don't feel like rereading it, but if I recall correctly trading was not really for you. I think you should stick to something else....
And that is the best advice anybody can give you on this board...
I would think missing the bubble in the 90's would be considered a blessing. Being able to make a quick buck in a one way market would have instilled that "yes, I know what i'm doing, and I'm a trader"
.. and we all know what happened to the johnny-come-latelies during that bubble.
I thank my lucky stars that I had to get the sh*t beaten out of me during the bond chop a few years ago. Made me explore all kinds of different avenues, and now, I have a much broader understanding of not just tsys, but how a lot of things correlate and work in tandem.
good luck,
cbk
(back to lurking)
.. and we all know what happened to the johnny-come-latelies during that bubble.
I thank my lucky stars that I had to get the sh*t beaten out of me during the bond chop a few years ago. Made me explore all kinds of different avenues, and now, I have a much broader understanding of not just tsys, but how a lot of things correlate and work in tandem.
good luck,
cbk
(back to lurking)