Debates!!!

[RCG Trader]

Quote from Epic:

First, I'm not talking about republicans. They were never going to vote for him anyway. I'm talking about more centrist voters. He doesn't appear to be the guy who accomplishes his agenda, he appears incompetent.

Secondly, the main focus of the 2008 election was the economy until the war came into the forefront. HillaryCare was such a massive failure that the Dems were having a tough time bringing it up again. Obama was very strong on ending the wars and closing Guantanamo, and saving the economy. Health care was way down the list for most voters. So he broke the promises that voters cared about, in order to pursue what he wanted. That wasn't smart.

I'll give it to him now though. He's been trying to keep the promises now, like pulling out of Iraq. It might be a bit late though. He's lost a lot of his base as they got impatient with him.

He knew he could get to his base later on down the road. What exactly are their options

He ended Iraq, he is drawing down Afghanistan. Better late than never.

The Buffett rule thingy was aimed at the Rust Belt. So he knows he has the Left Coast, and the Eastern Seaboard. The battleground will be here in the MidWest, as it always is. He is playing the 99% card, and with Mittens being who he is, it will play well. He is conceding the South.

 

[trefoil]

Quote from Epic:

First, I'm not talking about republicans. They were never going to vote for him anyway. I'm talking about more centrist voters. He doesn't appear to be the guy who accomplishes his agenda, he appears incompetent.

Secondly, the main focus of the 2008 election was the economy until the war came into the forefront. HillaryCare was such a massive failure that the Dems were having a tough time bringing it up again. Obama was very strong on ending the wars and closing Guantanamo, and saving the economy. Health care was way down the list for most voters. So he broke the promises that voters cared about, in order to pursue what he wanted. That wasn't smart.

I'll give it to him now though. He's been trying to keep the promises now, like pulling out of Iraq. It might be a bit late though. He's lost a lot of his base as they got impatient with him.

2008 was the opposite of what you remember: the war was foremost until Sept 15 and Lehman, after which it was the economy. The mishandling of Lehman by the Bush Admin doomed McCain.
The failure to close Guantanamo was bad, but hardly fatal. Iraq is done with, and Afghanistan soon will be. As for the economy, I can't speak for normal people there since I know a lot more economic history than most, so my expectations were lower to begin with, knowing what he faced. I've always been baffled by the usual attitudes towards the economy people have.
The only thing I fault him for there is that he didn't break up the TBTF banks, as that is just a problem that will come back to bite us yet again somewhere down the line. It was by a wide margin his worst failing, and what's even worse than that is that I don't think he regards it as a failure. He simply doesn't understand the risks that this introduces into the economy.
The Republicans, as usual, are happy with the status quo, and want to dismantle what little progress was made in this area. It's a choice between a lack of understanding the seriousness of the problem on the one hand, and a failure to even recognize there is a problem on the other.

 

[RCG Trader]

Quote from RCG Trader:

He knew he could get to his base later on down the road. What exactly are their options

He ended Iraq, he is drawing down Afghanistan. Better late than never.

The Buffett rule thingy was aimed at the Rust Belt. So he knows he has the Left Coast, and the Eastern Seaboard. The battleground will be here in the MidWest, as it always is. He is playing the 99% card, and with Mittens being who he is, it will play well. He is conceding the South.

I blew off the Mountain West because I believe Illinois all by itself compensates for the the entire Mountain West. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[RCG Trader]

Quote from trefoil:

2008 was the opposite of what you remember: the war was foremost until Sept 15 and Lehman, after which it was the economy. The mishandling of Lehman by the Bush Admin doomed McCain.

I remember during the crisis, Susie Orman saying, almost under her breath, "they should never have let Lehman go"

 

[RCG Trader]

Quote from trefoil:


The only thing I fault him for there is that he didn't break up the TBTF banks, as that is just a problem that will come back to bite us yet again somewhere down the line.

In fact, I think Wells Fargo got bigger, didn't they? Did they not swallow Wachovia?

 

[Brass]

At this point, I think everyone is chewing the fat just to chew the fat. We all know that none of the current GOP crop can defeat Obama come the general election. Those here who pretend that one of these guys can, remind me of scared kids whistling while crossing a graveyard at night, False bravado and all that.

 

[Epic]

Wow! I really underestimated Romney.

I really thought that we were going to see the same old Romney at the debate, saying the same dead lines that everyone has heard many times.

Until last night, I was convinced that the only reason Romney did ok in debates was because of an extreme amount of prepping and programming. The assumption was that as soon as he is forced outside of his prepared statements, he fumbles the ball. Case in point, his initial responses on taxes.

Last night made me reconsidered my theory. I think I might've been way off the mark. It seems that he might be comfortable pushing the issues from a position of power, as long as he feels like he is well informed on the topic. There is a part of me who thinks that his struggles have been the result of his allowing the team to control him too much. He doesn't want to say something stupid so the 'what not to say' part is jamming him. Newt never has that problem. He just goes in freestyle.

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from Brass:

At this point, I think everyone is chewing the fat just to chew the fat. We all know that none of the current GOP crop can defeat Obama come the general election. Those here who pretend that one of these guys can, remind me of scared kids whistling while crossing a graveyard at night, False bravado and all that.

Anyone who speaks in absolutes and uses the words always or never most likely has not advanced beyond a high school education. Anything can happen, especially in politics.

 

[Brass]

Quote from Maverick74:

Anyone who speaks in absolutes and uses the words always or never most likely has not advanced beyond a high school education. Anything can happen, especially in politics.

I'm not speaking in absolutes. (What does that even mean in this context?) Of course "anything" can happen. But now you're speculating on the unknowable. And THAT'S fat chewing. As things stand, I really don't think the GOP has a chance. And that's all we can actually comment on, as things stand, unless you've gone prophetic on us. And as for education, since you brought it up, I've got an MBA. What have you got?

 

[Epic]

Quote from Brass:

I'm not speaking in absolutes. (What does that even mean in this context?) Of course "anything" can happen. But now you're speculating on the unknowable. And THAT'S fat chewing. As things stand, I really don't think the GOP has a chance. And that's all we can actually comment on, as things stand, unless you've gone prophetic on us. And since you're the one who brought it up, regarding education, I've got an MBA. What have you got?

I disagree. As things currently stand, I think Obama would lose to Romney or Santorum. Gingrich would be close. Obama would beat Paul.

I actually think it will be an improved economy that wins it for Obama toward the end of the year. But right now, he loses.